Cropping for composition

Greetings to all, love the site and am learning a lot. I've gotten confused about a question that I couldn't find having been addressed in earlier posts.

A very common critique that I see is something like "need to crop some more off the top" (or the bottom, or the side). For many images that seems difficult to do without disturbing the overall composition when you also want to follow the rule of thirds and/or stay within the limits of a standard frame/mat size such as 8x10, 8x12, 11x14, etc.

It got me wondering what experienced folks do most often:

"Crop for the best possible composition and never mind whether the final image turns out to be 8x10 or 7.7x13.6, you can always cut a custom mat."

OR

"Eliminate as much dead space as possible, try to follow the rule of thirds, but stay within a standard ratio."

This all doesn't matter just for posting an image on a website, but if you wanted to make prints for framing....Also, the standard Crop tool in Photoshop assumes you'll use an aspect ratio (albeit adjustable).

Is there a consensus on this? Thanks in advance.

John I always crop to taste Never consider the final ratio

I understand framing would be more difficult If you do lots of printing try making your own mats Its not difficult and will save you time and aggravation.

I totally ignore the ratios too. Crop for compo and worry about matting later.

Thanks, wow -- y'all are fast -- I barely had time to take out the garbage and you've posted responses already <g>.

Funny how this had me stumped--I must be too accustomed to "staying inside the box."

A possible future addition to the Educational Resources forum: "How to Select and Use a Mat Cutter."

John,

What I do is never crop the original image either during RAW conversion or when converted. I always optimize the full image (exceptions include when I need to do a rotation, add canvas, photomerges, etc. - then I crop the final biggest crop I can make). Once that is done, I do my creative crop. I will use the rule of thirds if I feel it is an advantage, my own personal tastes when not. If I don't know which way to go, I place a sizable rule-of-thirds grid on the image and experiment.

For web postings it is my creative crop that I present.

For mats, I will crop to an aspect ratio as most art fair buyers don't really care or know (not trying to insult anyone, just my observation). I don't do a lot of fairs (a few a year) so this is not a big problem for me.

For my galleries, I creative crop and sell the image only. The purchaser can go and have it mounted and framed.

Finally, the question is asked and someone has truthfully answered it! Thanks John for asking, and thanks Robert for answering. I always felt most forum posters cropped creatively for the post and then had other crops for sales to the public and galleries etc...I knew or felt quite a few made crops just to show off the image here in the forums, knowing they would never sell it the way it was presented here.

My posted crops are the only crop I make. In other words I try to crop to the rule of thirds and if possible for the standard frame sizes. About 25 % of my images are custom. I went to the printers today to have 8 images made to donate to a fund raiser. 2 of the custom images are $45 a piece, while the rest are $6 to $10 because they are standard frame sizes. To me a big reason to try to stay within, if possible, the standard framing sizes. If however the image is better suited to a custom size, then so be it. And everyone has his own tastes as well.

My response here is not to ignite a firestorm of replies or to poke fun at anyone. So please understand my reply as it is intended. I am very glad this issue has been raised and then answered respectfully and truthfully as it has been here. And I hope this is not hijacking John's thread.

I actually try to stay with a 1.5 aspect ratio or a common 1.25. Sometimes I don't but normally I do because I sell some prints once in a while and people tend to want common sizes that they can frame relatively easily. I use mpix.com to do my prints and I don't want the problem of having to crop off a nice flared streetlight or some other part of a photograph that changes the print a buyer actually will receive. Also, the common sizes can be easily ordered framed from mpix too. For about $48 I can get a 12x18 framed w/black metal (gallery) frame and double-weight matted. So, I guess I am one of the odd ones out too, Grady.

I prefer the standard 2x3,3x2 aspect ratio's and will always strive to crop that way if the composition will allow.