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D. Robert Franz
04-15-2012, 11:36 AM
I visited a local Archeological site the other night with images like this in mind. There were only 3 spots at the site where you could get enough sky in the image to make it work. I lit up the FG with a flash in manual at 1/128th power.

Camera Model: Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Owner: D. Robert Franz
Date/Time: 2012:04:10 22:27:42
Shutter speed: 25 sec
Aperture: F 2.8
Exposure mode: Manual
Metering mode: Multi-segment
Focal Length: 14mm
ISO: 6400

Hazel Grant
04-15-2012, 09:28 PM
That artwork shows up so well. And the sky details add so much. 25 sec? A long time. Glad the stars didn't blur. Is the light area at the top of the rock from behind?

Robert Amoruso
04-15-2012, 09:52 PM
Nicely composed and I like the use of the flash.

I am not a night time photography expert but I think I see color noise in the sky.

D. Robert Franz
04-15-2012, 10:24 PM
25 sec? A long time. Glad the stars didn't blur. Is the light area at the top of the rock from behind?

The wider angle you use the longer you can go withoug star motion. I've found that 400 divided by your FL in this case 14mm, gives you the length of time you can leave your shutter open... The glow is just the natural glow of the milky way!

Don Railton
04-16-2012, 03:52 AM
Hello Robert

Thanks for the heads up on exposure time vs Focal length. These little gems are worth their weight in gold and make this site sooooo valuable. Regarding the image, I too like the composition and the thought gone into it, but unfortunately i dont like the sky. I see greens and red tinges and the stars look square, like little bits of sugar sprinkled on a sheet. My preference would be to have the sky darker and the stars not so bright...so it looks more like what I would see outside at night with the naked eye. I guess this might be achieved with either a shorter exposure or a lower ISO, and I am curious as to which of those you would try first if you were trying to get the image i described...

regards

DON

Morkel Erasmus
04-16-2012, 03:53 AM
Nice scene here Dale. Great way to show these relics...:5
Not sure why you went to ISO-6400? Those I know who use the 5Dmk2 for nightscapes don't like to venture above 3200 due to noise issues. I am sure at f2.8 ISO 3200 would've given you enough 'light' as that's what I also normally use?


The wider angle you use the longer you can go withoug star motion. I've found that 400 divided by your FL in this case 14mm, gives you the length of time you can leave your shutter open... The glow is just the natural glow of the milky way!

I've understood it to be 600/FL but my method is also to stick to 25-30 seconds for focal lengths of under 18mm.

D. Robert Franz
04-16-2012, 07:19 AM
Hello Robert

My preference would be to have the sky darker and the stars not so bright...so it looks more like what I would see outside at night with the naked eye. I guess this might be achieved with either a shorter exposure or a lower ISO, and I am curious as to which of those you would try first if you were trying to get the image i described...

regards

DON


I was trying to bring out as much of the Milky Way glow as possible, in the high 5500" dry desert here in NW Wyoming thats' what we see.. So that's my vision. I've not even run any NR on this image. The RAWs look quite good! Some noise of course, it's ISO 6400. In fact I'm looking at a beautiful 17x25" print right now that looks much better than the little jpeg on the screen. Maybe some introduced jpeg artifacts when compressed...

D. Robert Franz
04-16-2012, 07:25 AM
Nice scene here Dale. Great way to show these relics...:5
Not sure why you went to ISO-6400? Those I know who use the 5Dmk2 for nightscapes don't like to venture above 3200 due to noise issues. I am sure at f2.8 ISO 3200 would've given you enough 'light' as that's what I also normally use?

I've understood it to be 600/FL but my method is also to stick to 25-30 seconds for focal lengths of under 18mm.

You just get a more dramatic sky at 6400 iso and that's what I'm shooting for. Belive me the 6400 print I have sitting beside me looks great. I remember back in the film days shooting on assignment with 1600 speed slide film pulshed to 3200....Now that was nasty! I've found that even with 30' at 14mm you start getting star movement when your not pointing north so I believe the equation works best at 400 divided by FL.

Dennis Bishop
04-16-2012, 11:04 AM
It sure works for me. I like the strong diagonal, the subject, and the colors. The flash nicely illuminated the rocks without casting any shadows that interfere with the image. Shooting this at night was a wonderful idea. As for the colors -- be they from noise, or not -- in the Milky Way, they very nicely complement the colors in the rocks. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Morkel Erasmus
04-16-2012, 03:05 PM
You just get a more dramatic sky at 6400 iso and that's what I'm shooting for. Belive me the 6400 print I have sitting beside me looks great. I remember back in the film days shooting on assignment with 1600 speed slide film pulshed to 3200....Now that was nasty! I've found that even with 30' at 14mm you start getting star movement when your not pointing north so I believe the equation works best at 400 divided by FL.

makes sense...great to know you can print at that high ISO at that size (I've printed ISO3200 up to A3).
of course - I have to point south for best results :bg3:

D. Robert Franz
04-16-2012, 04:01 PM
makes sense...great to know you can print at that high ISO at that size (I've printed ISO3200 up to A3).
of course - I have to point south for best results :bg3:

Your night images are looking great as well. Going to try a bigger print as well, my buddy has the Epson 4900?? so we're going to try a 24x36"

Now having to shoot south would be different for sure. Between that and the toilet swirling the wrong direction I'd be a mess :tinysmile_shy_t:

Don Railton
04-16-2012, 07:49 PM
Hi Robert

I envy your wide open spaces night sky...! Thanks for th explanation..

DON

Rachel Hollander
04-17-2012, 07:37 PM
Dale - thanks for the interesting discussion. I like the image a lot, especially your comp and use of flash to light up the rock painting. Do you prefer flash to light painting? I'm also curious for how long your triggered the flash.

TFS,
Rachel

D. Robert Franz
04-17-2012, 07:53 PM
Hi Rachel, thanks for the kind words. I set the flash at 1/128th power and just fired the flash once during the 25 second exposure. I'm quite close to the rockface so it's easy to over illuminate. I can't even imagine what the flash duration is at that power probably 1./15000 of a second. I'm still experimenting. Painting is tough, trying to get even illumination, but you have a bit more control of what you light up so I'm not sure which I like better. I've been painting with a small led light that I shine into my hand and reflect into the subject. Seems to be showing some promise.....

Rachel Hollander
04-17-2012, 07:59 PM
Dale - thanks for the quick reply and detailed explanation.

Steve Bein
04-25-2012, 12:44 AM
So, where was this when the rams were banging heads? Well done. The jpgs posted here often do little to respect what the image looks like when printed large. See you in Alaska
Steve