Photographer Guided Safaris [Archive] - BirdPhotographers.net

Ken Watkins

03-26-2011, 02:13 AM

I was reminded of this subject the other day by a friend when he mentioned the costs of these organised tours, and wondered what the users of this forum think about the subject.

My friend has for sometime been comparing the costs of these trips to those you would actually pay to go to the same places if you booked directly.

The results of this show that they seem to be a "nice little earner" for the organiser. Generally the difference between what you are asked to pay for an 8-10 day trip is around 30% higher than if you booked directly, and of course the person organising the trip gets substantial "agents" discounts on the accommodation which obviously contribute further to their profits.

All sorts of things are promised to make your trip "special" ,

A limited number of passengers per vehicle, which you could easily resolve for yourself by hiring a private vehicle which is generally available from most lodges at a reasonable price especially when divided by 2 or three people.

Higher baggage allowances on light aircraft, again easily resolved by purchasing an additional seat from the transfer operator. Also you would undoubtedly have to pay for this additional weight on your international flights.

Obviously you get the expertise of the organiser, but is it worth around $3,000 to $4,000 per head.

I have been on two of these types of safaris and only chose them because I knew they would provide me with something I could not possibly have easily arranged by myself. In these instances I have no complaints as to the value for money.

Roger Clark

03-26-2011, 10:00 PM

My first trip to east Africa was organized by a friend. Having done it once, I've gone again and again, organizing trips myself, taking friends and family (non-commercial--we split all costs equally). Through multiple trips, I've come to know the guides and lead person with the outfitter. The prices I've negotiated with 2 people per vehicle are almost a factor of 2 lower than the top photographer led trips (with 3 per vehicle). The last couple of trips have been 6 to 7 people and 3 vehicles. I am comfortable traveling the world on my own (well actually my wife usually comes too) and making our own plans; been doing it for 25+ years.

But having said that, for the once in a lifetime trip for amateur or advance amateur photographers, I think the higher cost photographer-led trip is the way to go. If you are not in a specific photography oriented safari, you stand the risk of major disappointment. For example, during my 2007 trip, I was talking to a photographer who was the lone person with a serious interest in photography in a group of 12. The group wanted to sleep in, have a leisurely breakfast then head out. He had asked his guide if they could go out early just one morning. The guide told him that would not be good as the animals are more active after their normal breakfast time and he would not leave earlier. Just as well, with 6 people in a vehicle, it was tough to move around to take photos anyway. I would consider such a safari a major disappointment no matter how cheap it was. Better to spend the money to do it well with a photography group, or keep saving for when one can. If one can't afford the photographer-led group, check out local camera clubs in your area and see if they might do group trips. But be prepared; 2 weeks on safari, getting up a 5 am and to bed after 10pm (after reviewing the day's images) can be exhausting.

Roger

Harshad Barve

03-26-2011, 10:23 PM

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All sorts of things are promised to make your trip "special" ,

I will see with whom I am going , will he keep his promises :w3

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I am comfortable traveling the world on my own (well actually my wife usually comes too) and making our own plans;

Roger

I too

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But having said that, for the once in a lifetime trip for amateur or advance amateur photographers, I think the higher cost photographer-led trip is the way to go.

Roger

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I was talking to a photographer who was the lone person with a serious interest in photography in a group of 12. The group wanted to sleep in, have a leisurely breakfast then head out. He had asked his guide if they could go out early just one morning. The guide told him that would not be good as the animals are more active after their normal breakfast time and he would not leave earlier. Just as well, with 6 people in a vehicle, it was tough to move around to take photos anyway. I would consider such a safari a major disappointment no matter how cheap it was. Better to spend the money to do it well with a photography group, or keep saving for when one can. If one can't afford the photographer-led group, check out local camera clubs in your area and see if they might do group trips. But be prepared; 2 weeks on safari, getting up a 5 am and to bed after 10pm (after reviewing the day's images) can be exhausting.

Roger

Here is main issue IMHO , with whom you are going , Is your tour leader or organizer is equally enthusiastic in making trip successful as you are.

In India and Africa, Where languages and organizing trips may not be very easy. I will try my level best to go with local experts.
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Ken Watkins

03-26-2011, 11:43 PM

Harshad,

I am not claiming that all guided tours are overpriced, I know they yours are not. India in particular is very difficult to organise privately, some claim to do these "specialised" tours but in my limited experience do not provide anything like what was promised.

I am really focusing on tours in Africa where this has become a burgeoning industry with burgeoning levels of charging, way above the actual costs which you would pay even when employing the "expertise£ of one of the mamy agents.

Roger,

The experience you relate is unfortunately common place, I was told of a group of 6 in a vehicle 4 of whom refused to go to see Wild Dog Hunting until they had breakfast.

I supose I am fortunate in over the years having established contact with people that supply what I want without charging an extortionate amount of money.

Ed Cordes

03-27-2011, 08:35 AM

I agree with the responses above. There are some trips I love organizing myself. However, for trips like Africa and other areas where I am totally unfamiliar with the details I have relied on a well known tour operator and photographer for 2 trips. There is no way I could have organized the details and logistics of the camps, vehicles, expert guides familiar with photography, and acquired the detailed, in country knowledge, on my own. We certainly paid for the service, but this is what business is about. If someone provides top notch service and value they deserve a profit.

Kirk Adams

03-28-2011, 12:33 AM

I love photographer led safaris, if I have the money to blow/spend/use/enjoy...why not let someone do the job for me ? You only get one life, enjoy it !

Tom Graham

03-29-2011, 01:11 AM

I have been on seven safaris to Africa since 2005. None were led by a pro photographer and none were "group" tours. A group (non-specialized photographic) tour is a sure way to become frustrated with photography. Photography of any subject. How could you photograph Venice on a European six cities in six days bus group tour?

Would I go on a photographer led safari? (Cost not being a consideration). Yes. But I'd first like to know a lot about it, like, type of game drive vehicle, photographers per vehicle, a typical days game drive schedule, and very important is will the vehicle be allowed to go off road at a sighting/viewing. Many (90%?) national parks do not permit off-road vehicles. This then becomes - stop here on road, hope you're close enough, hope the light is the right angle, hope the lion moves out of the brush, etc. And not to mention possibly 10 other vehicles trying to do the same in front and behind you.

Tom
ps - BTW, for every safari I put up a few snaps on smugmug. Many shots are "record" shots to accompany my trip report (Fodors travel forum). But I hope a few are good photos on their own. Link is - http://tomgraham.smugmug.com/

Mark Farnan

04-08-2011, 07:58 AM

Hi Ken,

Do you buy your milk at Pick & Pay ?. If yes, why ? You could have saved yourself a lot of money by going to the farmer and milk the cow yourself.

For many, who are hobby photogs and run demanding jobs during normal hours, find a specialised tour (e.g. photo tours) THE solution for a packed experience. That is special.

In my oppinion, your paying for 2 main things with a 'led Safari', plus a 3rd if its Instructional as well.

1. Convinience. You don't need to "think". About logistics or any other details, just show up and shoot. Someone else has taken care of all the details about getting you to the spot you need to be, in the time you need to be there. Weather that spot is shooting, sleeping, eating, etc etc. It is handled. For Long LONG photography days, especially with lots of driving, this should not be underestimated.

2. Location Knowledge and Access. They know where to be, when, and what you will find. If plan A has a problem (Access, road, weather, lack of subject, whatever) , they will have a Plan B and Plan C that deals with it. This often includes access which is more difficult to obtain on your own (even knowing what to ASK for)

For the tours that also include training/teaching/instruction then your paying for the 3rd

3. Tuition, "how to' do x,y,z in photography. Basically for them to pass on their expertise as a SME (Subject matter expert, to you. The subject could be photography itself, (technique etc), or expertise about the area or subject of the shoot. (animals, landscape, et al). This is not always the case depending on the comparative levels of participants vs trip leader, but general is so.

Then there are all the hidden costs we take for granted.

Pay - people doing this, generally want to be paid reasonably for providing the above, for their time. Not only for the actuall trip, but all the time spent preparing for it.
Insurance - This can be a killer
Fees, Permits etc. - Apart from the cost of obtaining, there can be considerable time dealing with the red tape involved in getting them.
Transport/Accomodation (If Provided). This is the main 'visible' cost of course.

I'm sure there are a bunch of 'other' costs I havn't even thought of here.

Whilst I'm sure these are run 'for profit' I don't think the profit involved is as much as we might think, depending on the trip concerned.

Note: The above assumes a Competant, professional "Safari" run for the participants. I'm sure there are trips out there that are only 'run' as ways to get the 'leader' to cool places and have others pay for it, or ones that are shonky as ****.

The couple I have done have been well worth it for the above reasons. For Reference these are: Iceland, 2010 Volcano. Seth Resnick, Ragnar Sigurdsson, Einar Erlendsson & Death Valley 2011, Steve Kossack. Both trips were long, tiring shoots, with lots of travel each day. It was WELL worth the money spent IMO.

Hope this helps !

Regards

Mark

Ken Watkins

05-17-2011, 04:21 AM

I have been away for a long time ( on a non photographer led trip) and have not been able to respond before.

The responses that have been made indicate to me that there is very little support for adventure and discovering for yourselves what is really available, as a result of this many trip organisers are able to get away with totally missleading statements as regards to their "tours".

A fine example of overstated expectations was sent to me while I was away.

This was a trip to camps where I have spent many months over the past few years, so I believe that I am in a good position to comment on the various claims made therein

All descriptions referred to what you could expect to see in Winter, unfortunately December in Botswana is in the summer and is also the rainy season. Most of the descriptions bear little resembelance to the reality of the situation at all.

Claims about predators in one of the camps in particular Lions are very speculative as there has not been a pride in this area for 5 years.

Each photographer, there is a limit of 8 on the trip will get his own row, and there will be three vehicles. Unfortunately each vehicle has only two rows and to my mind 3 multiplied by 2 is 6, presumably the other photographers will have to sit next to the driver with their view being obscured by the tracker who sits on the bonnet directly in front of this seat.

Finally the cost this is $8,000 per person for 8 nights, my wife and I stayed in these camps last Christmas (which incluides a $50 pppn supplement) for $10,800 for 9 nights rather than 8, it does not take much mathematical skill to work out the markup.

But of course in the end it is totally down to the purchaser, as they say "caveat emptor"