50D or 7D?

[Jen Howell]

Although I'm not going to be making any major purchases in the immediate future, I am in a position to save up some money for a new body. I'm currently using a 40D + Sigma 4.0/5.6 120-400mm mainly for wildlife, BIF, etc. While I'm quite content with the 40D, I'm looking to upgrade for better low-light handling (ie. less noise at higher ISO etc.).

I've searched for suggestions/comparisons on the internet, but everything became a blur very quickly. So I figured there was no better place to come for advice than the talented people at BPN.

All suggestions and comments are more than welcome.

[Jen Howell]

I should add that the two bodies that seem to make the most sense to me at the moment are the 50D and 7D. Are there any others I should be considering/researching?

[Flavio Rose]

Couple recommendations (I own a 7D):

Make sure you buy refurbished or used, not new, if you buy the 50D or 7D. They are late in their cycle. The 7D has dropped in price a lot over the past year (original price $1699 new, last I saw $1349 refurbished). Many used copies of the 7D are on sale.

Consider deferring any DSLR purchase until Canon catches up (if it can) with the low noise of the latest crop sensors from the other DSLR makers (e.g., Nikon D7000).

[Jen Howell]

Couple recommendations (I own a 7D):

Make sure you buy refurbished or used, not new, if you buy the 50D or 7D. They are late in their cycle. The 7D has dropped in price a lot over the past year (original price $1699 new, last I saw $1349 refurbished). Many used copies of the 7D are on sale.

Consider deferring any DSLR purchase until Canon catches up (if it can) with the low noise of the latest crop sensors from the other DSLR makers (e.g., Nikon D7000).

I was definitely going to go with a used or refurbished model. Are you overall happy with your 7D?

[Chris Korman]

Is there a reason you would not step up to a 1.3x crop body as your "next camera"?

[Flavio Rose]

For me the 7D works well. Pixel density is nice, back LCD is nice, Live View autofocus is sometimes useful. Static AF is good. I don't do enough BIF to judge the AI Servo AF which has been the 7D's most controversial feature.

As for 1.3x crop bodies, the following is my thinking for what it's worth. You can get a used 500 f/4 for little more than the price of a 1D4, and the glass is a better investment. Used 1D2's are tempting because of low cost but their pixel density is very low. Used 1D3's would be a gamble because of the AF issues, and they too have quite low pixel density.

[Chris Korman]

Well the OP was about lower noise at high ISO, and while I can appreciate the economic sense of going for a 1.6 crop body, the 1.3x crop bodies will invariably have better noise performance from within the same product release cycle.

[Flavio Rose]

OK, Chris, you are compelling me to make extremely controversial statements. :S3:

I have shot a lot of birds with a 400 mm lens. When you shoot birds with a 400 mm lens, you crop a lot.

If most shots get cropped, then having a bigger sensor -- as in a 1.3x crop camera instead of a 1.6x -- just means you will crop even more heavily. Noise is roughly inverse to the area of the sensor (mm2 of sensor) that is taken up by your subject, i.e., to the light the sensor gathers for your subject. (You could say this only holds within the same product release cycle, but really I think it holds for all product release cycles since 2006 or so when progress in noise stopped for Canon.) If most shots are at maximum zoom and still get cropped, the only way to make that area taken up by the subject bigger is longer glass. You can't make that area bigger just by having a bigger sensor unless you have the glass to make the bird fill it.

Now, for nonbird subjects, the result is very different. Suppose you are shooting at 200 mm focal length and your subject fills the frame. Under that assumption, exchanging a 40D for a 1D3 -- which forces you to zoom to 260 mm to keep the subject filling the much larger frame -- will result in considerably lower noise because the area of the sensor covered by the subject (i.e., the whole sensor) is considerably bigger.

All this is first order rough calculation.

[Jen Howell]

I understand the 1.3 crop sensor would be better on noise, but the fact that I usually shoot at my max zoom of 400 and still crop as Flavio does makes me want to rule out the 1.3 crop and full frame for the time being (at least until I have the means to make an investment in a bigger lens).

[Doug Brown]

I've owned both the 50D and the 7D. The 7D has much better high ISO performance than the 50D in spite of the higher pixel count. It has exceptional AF and a great feature set. If you're ruling out a 1.3 crop sensor, the 7D is a no brainer.

[brian simpson]

I have a 50D,very noisey camera,Now have a D7000 amazing camera,if only my canon 400-5.6 would fit the nikon ide be happy

[Flavio Rose]

You might want to look at this page to see how much progress Canon has made in high ISO from 40D to 50D to 7D.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/619|0/%28appareil2%29/272|0/%28appareil3%29/180|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28brand3%29/Canon (http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/en/Camera-Sensor/Compare/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/619%7C0/%28appareil2%29/272%7C0/%28appareil3%29/180%7C0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Canon/%28brand3%29/Canon)

Press the button marked "18% SNR" and you get a comparative graph for the three cameras.

[Jen Howell]

Thank you all so very much for all your advice - I'm definitely leaning more towards the 7D.

[Julie Brown]

Hi Jen,

I own the 5D MKII and can tell you that it is a super performer at high ISOs. There have been a few threads on this subject and you might be interested in what Arash and Roger Clark have to say.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/67778-5D-Mark-II-for-birds?highlight=arash+hazeghi+5D+MKII

[Jeff Parker]

I went from a 40D to a 7D and love it. The 50D wouldn't seem to be enough of a difference from the 40D to bother with.

[Jay Gould]

Until I make the jump to a pro-body - the 1D4 or the future 1D4s/1D??/ I might just go for the full frame for landscape work - my two camera combo which works great for me is the 5D2 and the 7D. Both great cameras!!