Gull ID

[Michael Lotito]

I am thinking maybe an Iceland Gull. It was taken today on Long Island, NY.

[Jeff Cashdollar]

That is my guess - need some help here.

Iceland Gull - This is a fairly large gull, very pale in all plumages, with no black in the wings or tail. Adults are pale grey above, with a yellowish-green bill. Immatures are very pale grey; the bill is more extensively dark than with Glaucous Gull, and lacks pink. It is smaller and thinner billed than the very large Glaucous Gull, and is usually smaller than the Herring Gull. It takes four years to reach maturity. The call is a "laughing" cry like Herring Gull, but higher pitch.

[Paul Guris]

Looks like an Iceland, albeit a very dainty one.

[Declan Troy]

Yup, but. To most this is a distinction without a difference but for sake of completness (and discussion/argument) this looks like a Kumlien's Gull.

[Paul Guris]

Declan, I'm not positive but I believe that nominate Iceland Gull has never been proven to occur in North America, not even in Newfoundland where they gets tons of "Kumlien's" Gulls and know gulls well enough that they are finding Yellow-legged somewhat regularly. So the common use of Iceland and Kumlien's in N.A. is pretty much synonymous ... until (or maybe "if") somebody actually figures out what the heck is going on between Thayer's to the west and glaucoides Iceland to the east. Fun stuff!

[Declan Troy]

Hey Paul, I shouldn't flog a dead gull but it's one of those days so why not. But do recall that I started by saying I was making a distinction without a difference. Now as to the status of nominate Iceland in North America I think all agree that Kumlien's is much more numerous than g. glaucoides where folks are looking but the ornithological literature is at odds with birders who think glaucoides is absent along the east coast. Of course most biogeographers (and the AOU but not the ABA) consider Greenland (where nominate Iceland nests) to be part of North America so there are lots of them here!

[Paul Guris]

Good point. The ABA area and North America are certainly not necessarily synonymous.

"...but the ornithological literature is at odds with birders who think glaucoides is absent along the east coast."

The last I had heard (and it's been a while since I've done any digging), no specimen or banded bird had ever been found in the U.S. or Canada. I believe sight ID is still considered problematic, but I seem to recall that 1st year birds may be easier to separate than adults. I'd be interested to hear what evidence has been put forth in ornithological literature that nominate birds occur along the East Coast. If you know of anything specific, please let me know. Thanks.

[Declan Troy]

Given how few are banded I would not put too much weight on the absence of recoveries. There are precious few recoveries/resightings of Thayer's Gulls from Canada in the USA but they are known to occur with some abundance!

Without digging too far into the weeds the BNA and Birds of Canada mention g. glaucoides as occurring on the east coast. The authors of both were gull enthusiasts; indeed Godfrey (Birds of Canada) led the pack in recognizing Thayer's Gull as a species and later merging it with Iceland (pack not quite caught up to him on this one).

Also worth bearing in mind that g. glaucoides is described as being primarily pelagic in winter. Inferring distribution based on where the people are rather than where the birds are is a bit risky. Think of the descriptions of eat coast procellarids if you based on on shore based observers.

[Paul Guris]

"Also worth bearing in mind that g. glaucoides is described as being primarily pelagic in winter."

Thanks for that. Running pelagics on the east coast and having white-winged gulls showing up pretty regularly, I think this is a topic I'm going to have to dig deeper into.

Speaking of gulls, you might find it interesting that over 1,000 Lesser Black-backed have been color banded in Iceland over the past decade. The only Western Hemisphere return they've had was a sighting in Barbados. This has become a regular and sometimes common bird in southeastern Pennsylvania (just had one today when looking at the Barnacle Goose my wife found near our home) but nobody seems to know where they're coming from. Interestingly, personal comments from a full-time field researcher and serious gullhead were that presumed Lesser x Herring hybrids are showing up more frequently here. Fun stuff!

[John Chardine]

Rather than get your knickers in a twist on what this might be, it may be best to consider what it isn't. Based on the proportions of the bill and head, and overall look (and other reasons) it's not a Glaucous Gull, the wing tips are too light for a Herring Gull. The mottling on the wings point to a young bird, not first year because of the gray mantle. So we have Iceland or Thayer's left based on distribution. The dainty head is absolutely typical of the 1000s of Icelands we see here in the winter. Sibley points out the "pale fringes on the primaries" (as seen here) is a mark of Thayer's. As the species status of Thayer's and Iceland is not defined at present (and maybe never will be), any definitive answer based on an image would be mere conjecture.

[Jeff Cashdollar]

http://www.avianweb.com/thayersgulls.html

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