Confused about switching to a 64 bit operating system

[Richard Lovison]

Even in spite of my age I thought I was well educated when it came to computers though I'm a little in the dark when it comes to 64 bit processors and operating systems. My current photography workstation is an older system with a single core Pentium 4 prescott 3.0Ghz CPU with 3GB of ram and an AGP video bus (what a rude awakening it was to discover that installing 4GB of ram was a waste of time and money due to my computer hardware taking up almost 1GB of the 4GB addressable memory space available in the 32 bit system). I'll be looking to upgrade to an AMD or Intel multiple core system in the future, most likely with a 64 bit operating system so more ram can be utilized. Questions... can 32 bit software run on a 64 bit system or will I be left with some apps that work while others don't? Does it make any sense to stick with a 32 bit OS with a multiple core cpu and limit myself to 4gb of addressable memory? Any advice would be appreciated.

Richard

[DickLudwig]

Most 32 bit software will run without a problem.
One problem area is software that requires a 64 bit driver. (e.g. Nikon refuses to make a 64 bit driver for the Nikon Coolscan 5000 Scanner - so the scanner won't work on a 64 bit OS. However there is a workaround that works well with a bit of work on your part.) So I'd recommend that you check that everything you plan to connect (printers, scanners, webcams, tablets etc.) to the new x64 computer has a 64 bit driver that will work in the 64 bit OS you'll be using. Other than drivers as long as the 32 bit software is relatively recent you should have no problem. If you're going to Win 7 x64, Microsoft makes a Win 7 Upgrade Advisor (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/upgrade-advisor.aspx) that works well. It will look at everything installed on you current computer and notify you if it finds problems. You can then research the problems to see if you need to update the software or just download the latest version. I have a ton of software on my computers and was able to load everything with the exception of Nikon Coolscan 5000 without incident.

[Richard Lovison]

Dick,

Thanks so much for your help.

Richard

[Ron Scholar]

I run a Mac, but in order to use my favorite slideshow program, ProShow, I installed a W7 64 bit partition. I cannot see any of the NEF files in W7 unless I use software with its own built in NEF codec (ie: Lightroom, NX2, View NX ect.) I did some research and Nikon hasn't bothered to write a 64 bit NEF codec. It has a 32 bit codec, but not 64 bit. You can buy a third part codec for about $20, but Nikon appears to just not care about this. Whether or not this means anything to you or not I can;t say, just wanted you to know. That said, if you are going to upgrade, I would most definitely go 64 bit and load up on the RAM.

[Chris Ober]

Most apps will either work or will have an updated version for 64 bit. You will want to verify you will have drivers for any hardware you use and I would check software versions as well. Windows 7 also has a comparability mode for older software or you can try their XP mode which uses visualization http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/features/windows-xp-mode.aspx

[Richard Lovison]

Thanks Ron and Chris for providing more info. Looks like it's going to be an interesting journey... I just hope I don't go insane. :S3:

[Cody Covey]

Thanks Ron and Chris for providing more info. Looks like it's going to be an interesting journey... I just hope I don't go insane. :S3:
You'll be fine :) The biggest problem I have come across is printer drivers but that can be worked around fairly easily. The other problem is Nikon and Canon, for whatever reason refuse to make 64 bit drivers for their raw files. Slight inconvience but I would say its worth it to be able to take advantage of the better memory mappings and ability to have more memory.

[Roger Clark]

You'll be fine :) The biggest problem I have come across is printer drivers but that can be worked around fairly easily. The other problem is Nikon and Canon, for whatever reason refuse to make 64 bit drivers for their raw files. Slight inconvience but I would say its worth it to be able to take advantage of the better memory mappings and ability to have more memory.

Cody,
Are you saying that the canon software that comes with the camera does not work on 64-bit windows?

(FYI-I have been gone for 2 weeks to Tanzania--just got back so will be online again.)

Richard,
When choosing a new computer consider a I7-9xx machine with 4 or more cores. The multiprocessor performance is a significant improvement over previous cpus. I have put together several 64-bit linux systems with the I7 cpus and and very very impressed with performance. I have the part6s to put together an I7 windows 64-bit systemin the next couple of weeks so have yet to face the software issues on windows.

I took a windows 7 (32-bit) laptop to Tanzania. My review of windows 7: it is like a Boy Scout wanting to help a little old lady cross the street, whether or not the lady wants to cross the street! Also, developers should be forced to develop on a laptop with a small screen. Windows 7 uses up a lot of space to be cutesy which works against you seeing your content within a window.

Roger

[Chris Ober]

I took a windows 7 (32-bit) laptop to Tanzania. My review of windows 7: it is like a Boy Scout wanting to help a little old lady cross the street, whether or not the lady wants to cross the street! Also, developers should be forced to develop on a laptop with a small screen. Windows 7 uses up a lot of space to be cutesy which works against you seeing your content within a window.

Roger


Agreed... You can change most of this by 1) setting it to a Windows Classic theme (Control Panel - Personalization and it's listed under Basic and High Contrast Themes) and 2) Turning off the Navigation and Details panels that take up half of the windows on the left and bottom of each folder views (From the menu, Organize - Layout - Navigation Pane and Details Pane)

[Richard Lovison]

Richard,
When choosing a new computer consider a I7-9xx machine with 4 or more cores. The multiprocessor performance is a significant improvement over previous cpus. I have put together several 64-bit linux systems with the I7 cpus and and very very impressed with performance. I have the part6s to put together an I7 windows 64-bit systemin the next couple of weeks so have yet to face the software issues on windows.

Roger

Roger,

I was actually considering an AMD Phenom II X6 1045T (2.7 GHz), 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz and a 1 GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5450 in a Dell system from their outlet for around $700. Couldn't figure a way to build an I7 for less even without hard drives and monitor. Any opinions, negative or positive on an AMD system? Any recommendations for quality parts to build an I7 box?

BTW, I've been toying with Linux on a pc since 1994 when I started with a Slackware distribution, then quickly moved to Debian and now I'm running Ubuntu on a P4 machine. If it wasn't for my interest in photography, I'd exclusively use a Linux box.

Richard

[Cody Covey]

Cody,
Are you saying that the canon software that comes with the camera does not work on 64-bit windows?

(FYI-I have been gone for 2 weeks to Tanzania--just got back so will be online again.)

Richard,
When choosing a new computer consider a I7-9xx machine with 4 or more cores. The multiprocessor performance is a significant improvement over previous cpus. I have put together several 64-bit linux systems with the I7 cpus and and very very impressed with performance. I have the part6s to put together an I7 windows 64-bit systemin the next couple of weeks so have yet to face the software issues on windows.

I took a windows 7 (32-bit) laptop to Tanzania. My review of windows 7: it is like a Boy Scout wanting to help a little old lady cross the street, whether or not the lady wants to cross the street! Also, developers should be forced to develop on a laptop with a small screen. Windows 7 uses up a lot of space to be cutesy which works against you seeing your content within a window.

RogerNo sorry, what I am saying is they refuse to make the codecs for their raw files for 64bit machines. So in order to be able to view thumbnails in the windows explorer you need to download 3rd party software. All the software they provide (DPP, etc. ) has worked and installed fine on my x64 machine so far.

The way I've got around the no thumbnails is I open up lightroom and find the photo I want and either make the small edits in there or right click and select edit in CS5.

I'm hoping they will get on the x64 band wagon soon and make their codec files x64 compatible.

[Cody Covey]

Roger,

I was actually considering an AMD Phenom II X6 1045T (2.7 GHz), 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz and a 1 GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5450 in a Dell system from their outlet for around $700. Couldn't figure a way to build an I7 for less even without hard drives and monitor. Any opinions, negative or positive on an AMD system? Any recommendations for quality parts to build an I7 box?

BTW, I've been toying with Linux on a pc since 1994 when I started with a Slackware distribution, then quickly moved to Debian and now I'm running Ubuntu on a P4 machine. If it wasn't for my interest in photography, I'd exclusively use a Linux box.

RichardI have the AMD Phenom II x4 (2.8ghz) and 4 gigs of ram and I run all adobe products fine. I would think with that machine you will be okay and future proof. I think the biggest thing not to skimp on is RAM. CS5 is memory intensive, but with 8 gigs I think you will be okay. (Last night I had a game open as well as Lightroom and PS CS5 open all at the same time and was running just fine.)

[Roger Clark]

Roger,

I was actually considering an AMD Phenom II X6 1045T (2.7 GHz), 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz and a 1 GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5450 in a Dell system from their outlet for around $700. Couldn't figure a way to build an I7 for less even without hard drives and monitor. Any opinions, negative or positive on an AMD system? Any recommendations for quality parts to build an I7 box?

Hi Richard,
I do not have any experience with the AMD Phenom line. My experience with intel cpus is that when I throw multiple jobs at a multi-core system, the total time is like that of having a single cpu, on cpus before the I7. For example, If a task takes 10 seconds on a single core, if I run 4 jobs in parallel on a 4-core system, the each job takes 40 seconds so 4 jobs complete in 40 seconds. On the I7 machines I have now, a 10 second job always takes 10 seconds, so running 4 at once takes 10 seconds real time. I have a 12 core system and run very heavy compute jobs 10 to 12 at a time, and the speed-up in total throughput is linear with the number of cpus. It seems like pre I7 cpus are a waste of money.

I do agree that an I7 system will cost more than $700. But a cheap computer has cheap parts and probably will be limited in performance (although this is relative as performance today is better than last year). Where I see the most bottlenecks is USB throughput and disk I/O. This makes loading images slow, as well as slow to download from cards or USB drives. It would be ideal to test the machine first before buying.



BTW, I've been toying with Linux on a pc since 1994 when I started with a Slackware distribution, then quickly moved to Debian and now I'm running Ubuntu on a P4 machine. If it wasn't for my interest in photography, I'd exclusively use a Linux box.


Yes, if photoshop ran on linux I would only use linux. I use Ubuntu on most machines, and also redhat.

Roger

[Richard Lovison]

Roger,

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the new I7 CPU. If you are willing I would really appreciate recommendations for motherboard, ram, cpu , power supply and video card for a I7 64 bit system mainly to be used as a photography workstation. If it is more appropriate, a private message would be fine.

I didn't know you were into amateur astronomy. I took a look at your Appendix E... it provided some inspiration, hopefully enough so I'll make the attempt to haul out the ole Meade 2080 this spring. :S3:

Richard

[Roger Clark]

Richard,
This is what I bought from Newegg a few months ago (2 systems:

2 x ($79.99) HD 1.5T|ST ST31500341AS 7K 32M % - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337)

$159.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($139.99) PSU COOLMASTER| RS850-AMBAJ3-US RT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171048)

$279.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($199.99) VGA XFX|HD-685X-ZNFC HD6850 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150505)

$399.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($19.99) DVD BRN ASUS | DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS% - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)

$39.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($364.99) MB ASUS RAMPAGE III EXTREME X58 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131642)

$729.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($129.98) CASE CM|RC-932-KKN1-GP BK RT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160)

$259.96




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($249.99) MEM 2Gx3|CORSAIR CMT6GX3M3A2000C8 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145318)

$499.98




<hr style="margin: 4px;" width="100%" size="1">

2 x ($294.99) CPU INTEL|CORE I7 950 3.06G 45N R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211)

$589.98



Total per system = $1480 not including keyboard, mouse or monitor. Speed is extremely impressive.

Note the video card can support up to six 30-inch monitors (I haven't tried that yet).

I find often that parts bought a few months ago are no longer available, so you may have to substitute. The case is very large, but holds many disk drives, and is very quiet.

Roger

[Roger Clark]

Hmmm. Looks like all the prices have dropped significantly.
Roger

[Richard Lovison]

Roger,

Thanks for the parts list... much appreciated.

Sometimes my ignorance overwhelms me. I had no idea you were the Roger that wrote "Visual Astronomy of the Deep Sky" which has become a classic reference and collector's item. I really need to get out more. :S3:

Richard

[Roger Clark]

Roger,

Thanks for the parts list... much appreciated.

Sometimes my ignorance overwhelms me. I had no idea you were the Roger that wrote "Visual Astronomy of the Deep Sky" which has become a classic reference and collector's item. I really need to get out more. :S3:

Richard

Hi Richard,
Well, there are many Roger Clarks. I hope to do a new version of the book in a few years. Thanks for the kind words.

Roger

[Garry Gibson]

I just had to revisit this post especially the parts list from Roger Clark. I have had
on my todo list a computer upgrade for the past year and had read Roger's post with
some interest as to specific parts etc. Just as I was going to order from Newegg
I decided to take a look at Ebay and see if I could find something similar. I ended
up winning a bid for a computer that was about 6 months old.

What caught my eye was how close the build was to Roger's list. Maybe they are
birdphotographers.net readers? Here is the description of the computer I purchased below.

HAF 932 CASE W/ WINDOW



INTEL I7 BLOOMFIELD QUAD CORE PROCESSOR @ 3.06 GHZ

ASUS RAMPAGE III FORMULA MOTHERBOARD

RADEON HD 5770 1 GB VIDEO CARD

CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6 GB RAM @ 2000 MHZ (2 x 3) W/ FAN

COOLIT ECO-LITE LIQUID PROCESSOR COOLER

80 GB INTEL X25 SSD

2 TB CAVIAR BLACK WD 7200 RPM, 64 MB CACHE, 6 GB/S HDD

1 TB CAVIAR GREEN WD 5400 RPM, 16 MB CACHE, 3 GB/S HDD

CORSAIR 750 WATT PSU

LITE-ON CD-RW/DVD BURNER DRIVE

Again, thanks Roger for posting your list, it was invaluable in making a decision.

Garry Gibson


Richard,
This is what I bought from Newegg a few months ago (2 systems:

2 x ($79.99) HD 1.5T|ST ST31500341AS 7K 32M % - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337)

$159.98







2 x ($139.99) PSU COOLMASTER| RS850-AMBAJ3-US RT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171048)

$279.98







2 x ($199.99) VGA XFX|HD-685X-ZNFC HD6850 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150505)

$399.98







2 x ($19.99) DVD BRN ASUS | DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS% - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204)

$39.98







2 x ($364.99) MB ASUS RAMPAGE III EXTREME X58 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131642)

$729.98







2 x ($129.98) CASE CM|RC-932-KKN1-GP BK RT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119160)

$259.96







2 x ($249.99) MEM 2Gx3|CORSAIR CMT6GX3M3A2000C8 R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145318)

$499.98







2 x ($294.99) CPU INTEL|CORE I7 950 3.06G 45N R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211)

$589.98




Total per system = $1480 not including keyboard, mouse or monitor. Speed is extremely impressive.

Note the video card can support up to six 30-inch monitors (I haven't tried that yet).

I find often that parts bought a few months ago are no longer available, so you may have to substitute. The case is very large, but holds many disk drives, and is very quiet.

Roger