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Steve Gould
01-10-2011, 12:38 AM
Hello, everyone, and Happy New Year.

I promised Jay I would start to post in the new year, so here's my first, taken at the Grand Canyon last month a little after 3 pm (sunset was around 4:30 pm). This was stitched in CS5 using six images - 3 across and 2 rows; the only adjustments in Lightroom 3 to the Raw captures were to invoke the lens profile and to use the 2010 processor. Since I was pretty close to the foreground, there was considerable distortion, and I adjusted this using Warp. The squared up image was then processed using Topaz Adjust 4 (Photo Pop preset), a mild S curve, and then Viveza 2 for local adjustments to increase saturation and structure of the distant formations and to lighten the lower right corner foreground.

Camera: Canon 7D
Capture date/time: Dec 5 10; 3:15 pm
Light condition: late afternoon
Lens: Canon 17-40 mm f4 L
Focal length: 40 mm
ISO: 160
Exp Prog: Av
Speed: 1/25
Aperture: f/16
Exp Comp:
Metering: Evaluative
WB: Auto
AF Drive: One shot
Tripod: yes

Pixel Genius Sharpener Pro for Capture and Output sharpening

Please give me your comments and critiques/suggestions.

Dave Mills
01-10-2011, 02:11 PM
Hi Steve, welcome to the forum! Nice view of the canyon and good job with the stitching.
A few suggestions. First off I might have included a bit more of the tree on the left. It looks a little clipped.
The following is what I did to the image. I brought it into PS and applied S/H to bring out more detail in rear rock formations. I then applied the burn tool to them and mildly burned them in using burn tool on shadow adj at 68%. I then went into levels to add more contrast and reduced the saturation by 10%. Finally I cropped the sky since I felt the small blue band was taking away from the image.
I now notice a bluish caste to the rear of the image. I left that alone not sure if that was a natural element or not...

Robert Amoruso
01-10-2011, 03:05 PM
Hi Steve and welcome. I saw your image this morning but did not have time to comment. I believe Dave capture my thoughts ONI what I was going to suggest. I was struggling with the sky, but think Dave's suggestion is best.

Steve Gould
01-10-2011, 03:10 PM
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the adjustments and repost. I'm still not sure about losing the little bit of blue sky; it does give some context. Let's see what other people say.
I do like the rest. The right side looks more balanced with the left and is more interesting; the Levels adjustment did add good contrast. I had thought of burning that back right, but decided to see what others would suggest first. Lowering the saturation helped with the large butte on the left foreground moving into the middle ground. As for the tree on the left, I'm afraid that's all I have of it, but I think it gives enough context for helping to frame the image.
Again, many thanks!

Steve Gould
01-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Hi Robert,

Thanks for responding. Let's see if anyone else wants to keep some sky up there.

For everyone/anyone: have you previously seen an image capturing roughly this much of the Grand Canyon (with Bright Angel Canyon, too)?

Jay Gould
01-11-2011, 02:23 AM
Hey Bro, I vote definitely remove the sky!

The RP does you image justice; looking forward to you applying some of David's suggestions and posting a larger version.

Steve Gould
01-11-2011, 04:22 PM
Dave,

Here's my first repost. I use CS 5. Of course, everyone has his/her own workflow and favorite tools. Since all who have replied agree on removing the sky, that's the first thing I did.

Frankly, I never use S/H, so I'd be grateful if you would let me know what settings you used. It was always clunky in earlier CS versions and it still has to be used on an image layer (duplication of Background). I used Amount 20, Tonal Width 40, Radius 30, Midtones +10. Do you remember what settings you used?

I also never use the Burn Tool: same reason, although I understand that in CS 5 it is a good tool now but, again, I believe it needs to be done on an image layer so bumps up the file size big-time again. I've always done burning and dodging on an adjustment layer filled with 50% gray, so painting with black burns and painting with white dodges, and the file size increases only by the pixels I create. And, I use a Wacom pen in pressure-sensitive mode to make sure I get controllable effects. That said, I did burn in the back right area.

I desaturated -10 with the Saturation slider of a Vibrance adjustment layer; not sure if it makes a difference using Saturation there or in a Hue/Saturation adjustment layer.

Finally, I used Levels to increase the contrast by moving the midtone slider to 0.86. I almost never use Levels. :) There seems to be a theme going on here. :2eyes2:

So, that's the repost here. It's a bigger image because Jay told me how you guys get 1024 pix and always under the 200 kb limit. Tomorrow, I'll repost with all the same settings except that I'll do the contrast using Curves.

Dave Mills
01-11-2011, 05:17 PM
Hi Steve, I see a big improvement from the original. Regrettably I don't have the settings for S/H.If I make any changes in the future I'll make a note of it for you. When you use S/H just be careful not to overdo it.
Thanks for sending your workflow. The interesting thing is there are many different ways to get the same result...Look forward to seeing more of your images...

Roman Kurywczak
01-11-2011, 06:12 PM
Hey Steve,
Been there a few times myself. I am looking forward to the more contrast....as I think this will add some more depth to the canyon view. I like losing the sky idea too as per Dave's repost. Keep them coming!

Steve Gould
01-11-2011, 06:38 PM
Hi Roman,
Happy to have you in the discussion, too. Do you mean more contrast than I put into it with the Levels adjustment, or more contrast than I had in the original?

Roman Kurywczak
01-12-2011, 10:59 AM
Hey Steve,
Your MG is much flatter than Dave's repost and somehow the colors look a bit washed. Try this......go into selective color>neutrals and blacks......play with the black slider adding a bit. See if that gives it the final pop or try a LCE.

Andrew McLachlan
01-12-2011, 04:28 PM
Hi Steve, late getting around to this one, but I vote for no sky also and agree with Roman on bumping up the contrast. I do like the scene, it looks quite nice there.

Steve Gould
01-12-2011, 07:30 PM
Roman,

Before making your suggested adjustments, here's what I did yesterday using Curves instead of the Levels Dave suggested. I use Curves for my contrast adjustments. I have a preset S-curve with output 43 at 1/4 tone and 201 at 3/4 tone, and I first check it and the PS Medium Contrast preset before deciding if I want to tweak the curve for a given image. For this one, I went with the PS Medium Contrast. I think it's better than the Levels I posted yesterday: there's just a little more pop to it. Tomorrow, I'll post one of these with either a Selective Color Adjustment of the neutrals - I didn't see anything I liked when I adjusted the blacks - and/or an LCE. BUT, first please tell me what an LCE is (it's not in the acronym list link Jay sent me, and I don't recognize it from PS).

I usually stay on the conservative side of pp and tend to go with a fairly natural look. While I do want this image to be attention-getting, I don't want to overdo the contrast and the colors.

Thanks for your continued interest and suggestions.

Steve Gould
01-16-2011, 08:41 PM
Hi,

I'm back. Been busy getting work ready for the Pacific Southwest Wildlife Association's 38th Annual California Open Wildlife Art Festival (how's that for a mouthful?) - Feb. 12-13 in San Diego. A juried show, and I'll be exhibiting (and hopefully selling) my penguin and seal images from Antarctica (last January with Jay) and my underwater images from Indonesia (this past Sept-Oct.). If any of you reading this thread are from San Diego, please let me know if you're planning to go to this.

Here's the version with the Curves adjustment and then a Selective Color adjustment on the neutrals that Roman suggested trying. Jpeg quality 50. When I compare this and my previous two on my monitor (calibrated), I see the progression.

I still don't know what LCE stands for, so I didn't try it! Anyway, for me the proof is always in the print, and I did a test print of this version. I like it and feel that if I pumped up the MG and BG colors much more it wouldn't look natural.

Roman Kurywczak
01-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Hey Steve,
Knew I forgot something:wh......LCE is local contrast enhancement. Robert has a tutorial on it in the sticky for tonal range tweaks at the top of the forum?...........I need a busy emocion......or a monkey juggling!:D

Steve Gould
01-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Roman (and Robert),

Sounds like it would be useful to see, but I checked all the Critique Forums (Fora) and didn't see any by Robert (in this forum: Amoruso - yes, O'Toole - no).

Jay Gould
01-17-2011, 12:05 AM
Bro, the final image totally rocks! Welcome to the best education on the net.
:cheers:

Roman Kurywczak
01-18-2011, 02:18 PM
Roman (and Robert),

Sounds like it would be useful to see, but I checked all the Critique Forums (Fora) and didn't see any by Robert (in this forum: Amoruso - yes, O'Toole - no).

Here it is from the educational forums......this is part 1....there is also a part 2 (about 1/2 way into the list) ; http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?20434-Image-Contrast-and-Tonal-Range-Tweaks-Part-1-by-Robert-Amoruso

Sorry so late.....way too busy!

Steve Gould
01-18-2011, 07:52 PM
Roman,

I thought you had meant Robert O'Toole. Anyway, when I started to read Robert's description, it reminded me that I had read about this on the Cambridge In Colour website a couple of years ago, but hadn't put it into practice. Here's the link to the more detailed discussion:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/local-contrast-enhancement.htm

I applied Robert's settings, and here's the result. Again, it increases the contrast incrementally. Do you think it's overdone with the big red butte in the foreground and i should mask the effect out from there?

Bill Randall
01-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Deffinately got better with the adjusments. That bit of sky confused me and the added saturation really helped. I would clone out the tree in the lower right.

Steve Gould
01-24-2011, 10:38 AM
Hi Bill,

Thanks for joining in. Yes, the more saturated/contrasty BG helps a lot. As for the bush, actually, I like having some green on each side: that was a deliberate decision when I composed in the camera. For me it balances it and helps frame the image. There is a tiny bit of green right at the lower right corner that i didn't see before, and I'll clone that out for the final print.