Thoughts and Obsevations

[Roman Kurywczak]

Haven't posted here in Macro too much lately but finally got a chance today to visit an image that has sat in a folder for a while. When I composed this image I liked the shadow of the water lily under the water surface as much as I liked the bloom itself. I was HH and hanging over the pool at longwood gardens quite a bit! One day I will fall in there.....or get permission to go in! When I go home I wasn't that thrilled with it though.....I did clean up the #1 offender which was the water lines on the leaf......but not sure what is is that is bugging me! Is it the bud? Bud and leaf on the right? What do you think?
Canon 1D Mark lll with the Sigma 180mm macro HH at f32 for 1/200 sec. at ISO 500. Flash at +1. Clean up of a bit of leaf in LL and small crop off top.

[Ken Childs]

Roman, I'm not exactly sure what to tell you because I'm getting the same feeling that you have. I just tried removing the leaf and the bud and that really didn't make me feel differently about the shot either way. I then rotated it slightly CCW, cropped tighter and that seemed better but not quite right either. Maybe it's because we can't see more into the flower. I'm really curious to hear what others have to say. :confused:

[Ken Childs]

Since I did the edit, I figured I might as well go ahead and post it. :)


82879http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/images/misc/pencil.png

[Gary Hamilton]

I'm on the same page as Ken in that I think we need to see more of the inside of the flower. The long stem or the distance from you to the flower worked against you in that regard. About getting a better vantage point, remember: "it's always easier to apologize than it is to get permission."

[Roger Clark]

OK, I thought about this image for a while (oddly, while a flower show was on TV).

It is a great image, but I agree it does bug me too.

I think it needs more (black) space on the top.

The flower petals merge with the leaf line. I think it might (and stress might) be better to have moved the camera lower to separate them, so we see the full leaf line.

Third, the stem breaks the shadow. I think this is the most serious issue. If the camera were rotated to the right so the shadow did not intersect the stem, it could make a better image. The problem with this is then one is looking more at the side of the flower, so not sure how well it would work.

....Just some ideas.

Roger

[Anita Bower]

Roman: If you ever fall in, I hope someone takes a picture and posts it here. :-)
I think Ken is on to something here. I played around with his version, doing some quick work: Lightened and strengthened colors in flower, darkened leaf, especially edges, added some canvas to left, cropped. Not sure I like the cropped right edge of leaf.

[Nick Palmieri]

I really like Ken's re-post and agree that the leaf and stem on the bottom are distracting. The exposure is nice and the colors and sharpness are near perfect. The shadow is awesome and unless you hang from a rope over the pond (don't get any ideas!) you could not likely get a better shadow angle than that. Knowing you... I am sure you have shot this at every possible angle so I will not comment on changing your position. To be nit picky I would guess the only thing that bothers me is the lily pedal at 5 o'clock, if it were not there you would get a better look at the inside of the flower... but of course there is nothing you could do about that in this particular image. TFS

[Roman Kurywczak]

Thanks all,
I see everyone shares my feelings also. I think Kens route is the best and will also incorporate Anita's tweaks....but it still falls short for me. As Roger suggested (and Nick knows) I did go lower ....still didn't work for me. Nick was onto something as I wanted to get higher......get the bloom with more of a view looking in and keeping it away from the leaf edge.....alas I was holding as high as I could as this one was a bit in on the pond. My lesson from this one is that even when thigs look perfect......sometimes the image just isn't there to be had so concentrate on another one......although I will admit this one did leave me quite frustrated! Fortunately there were plenty more to keep me occupied......so this one goes into the delete bin!
Trust me Anita......if I go in it will be like the paparazzi!!!.....I will not emerge unscathed and more than a few images will show up! That's why I'm working on going in with the waders! They always put the Australian one too far away!!!!:D

[Norm Dulak]

In viewing this image, I will say up front that I am an admirer of Roman, who views his postings with enthusiasm because they will unquestionably make me a better photographer if I learn from them.

Having said that, I respectfully submit that IMHO this is not one of Roman's better offerings, although this image has real potential if presented properly.

For me, the elements beneath the blossom make a limited positive contribution to my overall impression of the image. I frankly don't like the elements flanking the lower part of the leaf at all. I would remove them. Furthermore, I find everything below the blossom to be to too dark, and almost foreboding. And finally, I find a fire within the blossom that I think has not been fully ignited.

As a starting point to try to further improve this good image, I will begin with Ken's contribution, which I think is excellent. From that beginning point, I have in this repost image attempted to further brighten the leaf below the blossom, and to more fully light the fire inherent within the blossom.

Norm

[Norm Dulak]

Not sure I like the cropped right edge of leaf.

Anita, I'm afraid that I agree with you here.

[Thomas Herou]

I like both the original and Ken's version.
The original is less studio-like and static,more natural looking.
In the original I think the bud and the folded leaf nicely balances the image.
But in Ken's version,the small tilt adds a lot.

[Andrew McLachlan]

A little late getting around to this one, but I like Ken's re-post and Roger's suggestion to add more black on top. In the original I found the light fall-off at the bottom of the comp distracting. Ken's crop eliminated that. I love the blossom's shadow on the leaf.

[Jay Sheinfield]

Roman,

You know I love the water lilys.............I think the angle or view of the lily is fine to me. Here is some other things to consider, I'm not a fan of converging lines where the lilys bottom leaves coincide with the pad. I have trouble keeping them apart. Second, I typically find water lilys work best in a horizontal frame unless there is some over-riding height in the comp to make it vertical. I fooled around and came up with this, which emphasizes the flower but still gives a hint to the cool shadow........I also changed the convergence..........let me know if this works.......................it may not be what you were after, though.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Thanks all! Glad to see you guys and gals thinking! I did keep the leaf darker Norm but lighter was a good choice. I love the tilt and Jay......I think your direction is the strongest!!! I hadn't thought of that! I do have many versions of that bloom as well as other similar ones.....but great thinking all around and some awesome suggestions! Just keep these thoughts in mind when working your subject!