Does this crop work?

[Sidharth Kodikal]

I am going through some of my images that I hadn't looked at yet, and am processing those that are a bit challenging for me in terms of composition.
I will start with this one ... does this composition/crop work?
I have more canvas all around.

All suggestions/feedback appreciated.

50d, 300 2.8 + 2x. 1/400, 7.1, iso 400. Av. Evaluative metering.

[allanrube]

I would add a bit more on the bottom, maybe the right. (I say maybe because it is easier to cut than to add in my mind.)

Nice composition, great bg.

[Dan Sorochan]

I would also add to the bottom making the distance between the bird's head and the border the same top and bottom. Nice reflection.

[Bhushan Dalvi]

Beautiful shot Sidharth. Love the background.

[Mark Young]

Sorry Sidharth I'm going against the grain and suggesting a bit more canvas above the bird. Maybe even recrop most of the lower half off from about the body of the reflected bird as well? Lovely image though, I like the colours of the bg.

[Arthur Morris]

I'd add a bit on the bottom but feel this would look great with lots more on our left to bring it back to 3X2. I'd love to see it reposted as described. Sharpness, light, REFL, colors, and head angle all perfect. Way to go! And thanks a ton for your membership support.

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Thanks for all the great suggestions.


I'd add a bit on the bottom but feel this would look great with lots more on our left to bring it back to 3X2. I'd love to see it reposted as described. Sharpness, light, REFL, colors, and head angle all perfect. Way to go!

Here's a repost with your suggested tweaks, Artie. I like it a *whole* lot more! I cannot believe the difference. Thank you!
Alan and Dan's recommendation is also covered by this crop.


And thanks a ton for your membership support.

My pleasure.

[Sidharth Kodikal]

And here's Mark's suggested crop ...

[Paul Lagasi]

If it were mine I'd add more to the bottom, making the space above the head and below the reflection the same, as reposted in thread 7
No way I'd cut the reflection in half, if I chose to crop it that way I'd clone out the reflection completely as shown below but the reflection has to stay.
The color of the water surface, sharpness and birds pose, are sweet...TFS

[Daniel Cadieux]

I agree the reflection has to stay. And i agree with more room below. Another option would have been to rotate your camera and take this as a vertical with more room above and below. The water looks simply stunning!!

[Arthur Morris]

Siddarth, I like what you did in Pane #7 but for my taste, I would not have taken anything off the top. It is my belief that unless you are putting the bird in an upper corner, there should be more room above the bird than below and that does not change because you have a perfect reflection (as it would with a great landscape....) Or possibly, and I would have to see it, more room top and bottom along with still more on the right. As presented in Pane 7, the bird does not have enough room above its head--it is simply too crowded in the frame.

[Mark Young]

My bad, it does look a bit wrong without the reflection. Thanks for humouring me with a repost anyway. :cheers:

[Stu Bowie]

Sidharth, even before reading Dan's comment, I would go vertical here, with a tad more space below the reflection. Lovely pose and reflection, and just love the BG colours.

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Thank you all again for the suggestions. Paul, thanks for taking the time to do the repost.
Daniel, Suart, I will definitely try a vertical crop tonight.
Mark, no worries. I too thought it might work when I read your suggestion.


I would not have taken anything off the top. It is my belief that unless you are putting the bird in an upper corner, there should be more room above the bird than below and that does not change because you have a perfect reflection

This is interesting. I instinctively lean towards having more room below for a regular bird on the ground (unless the beak is pointing upwards, say). In my mind, that makes the viewer feel like he is at eye level with the bird. With more room above than below, I feel like the viewer is looking at the bird down at an angle. It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but my eyes seem to naturally prefer that. I need to rethink.

Good news is that I have several images that are challenging me in terms of composition with enough canvas to experiment different crops with. Lots of experimentation that I'm looking forward to doing. Gotta love digital ...

[Arthur Morris]

This is interesting. I instinctively lean towards having more room below for a regular bird on the ground (unless the beak is pointing upwards, say). In my mind, that makes the viewer feel like he is at eye level with the bird. With more room above than below, I feel like the viewer is looking at the bird down at an angle. It is perhaps counter-intuitive, but my eyes seem to naturally prefer that. I need to rethink. Good news is that I have several images that are challenging me in terms of composition with enough canvas to experiment different crops with. Lots of experimentation that I'm looking forward to doing. Gotta love digital ...

Well, I am doing this for 28 years and the ideas that you propose are new to me :) I do believe that routinely leaving more room below a bird than above it for horizontal portraits is not the best way to go (unless you have a clear reason to do so) and I also believe that only the height of your tripod will affect the perceived viewpoint. If you leave a ton of room below the bird and none above but have created the image with a short lens while standing close to a bird it is still gonna look as if you are pointing the lens down at the bird's back....

You however are the photographer and the decision is yours. Do, however, take a look at the images posted here in this forum :)

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Thanks again for your input, Artie.


Well, I am doing this for 28 years and the ideas that you propose are new to me :)

I'm not really proposing new ideas. I just stated what my untrained eye seems to prefer and that I perhaps need to rethink my preference in composing pictures.
I surely understand that the composition cannot in any possible way change the actual angle, but I felt like it changes the perception. Then again, I'll be the first to admit that I don't know what I'm doing.
I will try what you suggested tonight.


Do, however, take a look at the images posted here in this forum :)

Yes, this forum is phenomenally good. I follow it religiously, and seek/invite input when confused.
I will be studying and trying different compositions ...
Thanks.

[Arthur Morris]

YAW Sidharth. Whatever you do, be sure to follow your own heart and work to create your own vision. And thanks for your kind words about BPN :)

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Hi Artie, I added about 3 times the space above and two times the space to the bottom as compared to the post in pane 7, and I liked this the most so far.
A vertical crop somehow didn't work for me. This thread has been very instructive for me; thanks again. I owe you all lunch.

[Arthur Morris]

Let's see it, plus all the room that you have on the right :)

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Let's see it, plus all the room that you have on the right :)

:) Ok, here's one with more room on the right.
I couldn't stay with 3:2 because I ran out of room on the left and didn't want to move the bird too much to the left.
The next time, I *will* know to compose this better in camera.
Let me know what you think and thanks a ton for taking the time to coach me.

[Arthur Morris]

Is this the full frame original capture???

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Artie, I have more on the right and top in the original.
(I was set up with center point + AI servo for some busy sandpipers. Not adept yet at changing the sensor point quickly or locking AF with the * button even though I have that configured)

[Arthur Morris]

Thanks and OK. We all get better with practice :) Be right back.

[Arthur Morris]

My two cents crop. One big dust spot right of the bird removed. Messed with the yellow band below the head REFL, and got rid of the bill shine.

[Sidharth Kodikal]

This is perfect! Thanks! Love the crop.
The bill shine + yellow band removal are fantastic tweaks. Was this done with a clone stamp? My attempt at it wasn't successful and I'd left it alone. Will retry on the tiff.
Thank you, Artie!

[Arthur Morris]

YAW. Bill shine work was done with the Clone Stamp Tool at 80%. If I had been working on the TIFF I may have used the Patch Tool for some of that work. The yellow band removal started with a warped Quick Mask and then some 50% Clone Stamp Tool and some Patch Tool work.

Most of the above (plus tons more including my complete digital workflow) is described in detail in Digital Basics (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=252). Warping QMs and tons more on QMs is detailed in Robert O'Toole's APTATS I (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=54).

[Bob Pelkey]

Very much enjoyed the thread. In the version of the image in pane 24, I think the only thing needed is removal of the bill shine in the reflection. Just ordered Digital Basics from the online store. : )

[Arthur Morris]

Hey Bob, Thanks for your order. Jim will have it on its way to you tomorrow. And good catch on the bill shine in the REFL that I missed. :o