Question regarding Aperture Priority Mode

[alexgwoodruff]

I have been reading in almost every thread that photographers use Aperture Priority as their preferred mode for avian photography. I headed out to put this into practice recently and found that all of my shots were over-exposed with 'blinkies' all over the place in the histogram warning. I shoot with a Nikon D70, so use exposure compensation of -0.7 (as I have seen recommended), but with no success. I have tried different metering modes and that seems to have no effect either. I ended up reverting back to Manual Mode.
Can anybody offer me any advice? Thanks.

[Juan Carlos Vindas]

Hello Alex, I am not an expert but to me AV or aperture priority works great. I guess since you are still getting blinkies, then you have to have a recipe for your exposures, and of course every exposure must have a different recipe, but may be you have to play a little with your f stops, ISO, metering patterns, as you had already. In AV you set the aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed. Then it is there where you have to experiment, may be a lower ISO? or may be a smaller aperture? (stop down) or open up? (larger aperture) will help.

Just my $0.2, hope this helps. jc

[William Malacarne]

It would be of much help if you would post an example photo in the Eager To Learn forum. Make sure to include the EXIF data as it will be much easier to see what happened. I know many use Aperture Priority to shoot BIF's. I know I use it a lot. It is as Juan says the size of the aperture and ISO will determine what the shutter speed will be and if you are getting white blinkies the shutter speed is not fast enough.

Bill

[Daniel Cadieux]

I use Aperture Priority 85-90% of the time and I love it! It is rare that I have no EC at all on any image. What were the BGs and the birds' tonalities? Metering mode (spot? evaluative? other?) **edit: saw that you tried different ones** I can guarantee you that if you photograph a small dark bird on a white overcast sky you will have an underexposed image if no exposure compensation is added significantly. Since you seem comfortable with Manual, then I assume you understand exposure...AV is the same general principal, except you adjust EC. If -0.7 is not enough then reduce it even more for that particular situation.

I agree posting an example could help us guide you through...

[Greg Basco]

I think Daniel has the right idea. Without knowing your specific shooting situation, it will be hard to recommend what exposure compensation you needed to dial in.

Cheers,
Greg Basco

[Desmond Chan]

I headed out to put this into practice recently and found that all of my shots were over-exposed with 'blinkies' all over the place in the histogram warning. I shoot with a Nikon D70, so use exposure compensation of -0.7 (as I have seen recommended), but with no success. I have tried different metering modes and that seems to have no effect either. I ended up reverting back to Manual Mode.
Can anybody offer me any advice? Thanks.

I primarily use manual mode for all kind of photos. Understandably some believe that if I use manual mode primarily, how the **** would I know how to use auto mode? OK. Here's my take. The different between manual mode and auto modes is the different buttons/dials you use to adjust for the exposure compensation.

In manual exposure mode, you compensate by actually changing the iso, shutter speed, and the aperture directly and do it yourself. In aperture priority mode for example, you pick the aperture and the camera select the shutter speed for you. When you have to adjust for exposure compensation, you do it by pressing on a button that add or subtract EV. One EV is one stop. Say in manual mode you want to compensate by adjusting the shutter speed from 1/500s to 1/250s to give you one stop more exposure, in aperture priority mode you increase the EV by one, or +1 EV. By doing that, your Nikon camera actually will reduce the shutter speed (check your camera manual to read what the camera actually does) for you.

The problem in your case seems to be that you kind of treated the recommended -.7 adjustment as law and forgot about what you'd learned about using an exposure meter, your own experiences. Just like in manual mode you would be using different shutter speeds under different situations, in auto mode you also have to adjust the exposure compensation based on different scenes you're dealing with. It seems to me that was what you had forgot about?

And I do use auto modes on occasions.

[Norm Dulak]

I have been reading in almost every thread that photographers use Aperture Priority as their preferred mode for avian photography. I headed out to put this into practice recently and found that all of my shots were over-exposed with 'blinkies' all over the place in the histogram warning. I shoot with a Nikon D70, so use exposure compensation of -0.7 (as I have seen recommended), but with no success. I have tried different metering modes and that seems to have no effect either. I ended up reverting back to Manual Mode.
Can anybody offer me any advice? Thanks.

Are you using Matrix Metering? If you are and -0.7 compensation doesn't cure the blinkies, apply more compensation until the problem is corrected.

AP should be your best bet in most cases. The only time I use shutter priority or manual is when I'm after hummingbirds, but then I also generally use one or more strobes.

Never use a "recommended" correction, but make your adjustments, use your blinkies and histogram(s), and make further adjustments if necessary until you get it right! :)

[Doug Brown]

I'm not sure that I've ever used shutter priority for avian photography; it's either manual or aperture priority. I like the artistic control over DOF that comes with Av mode (and manual mode for that matter). Under many circumstances there is no formula that will guarantee you a correct exposure in the priority modes without resorting to exposure compensation. The only general rule I have is that you do whatever it takes to get your exposure under control. If it means -2 EC, then that's what I use. To get a proper exposure you must understand which part of the scene you are metering, how the background will affect exposure of your subject (assuming that you're not spot metering the bird perfectly), and what the possible exposure pitfalls of a given image are (dark bird against a bright sky or white bird against a dark background).

[alexgwoodruff]

Thanks everyone for the input. I will head out again this week and put your advice to work. If I have trouble then I will come back and post the results - thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

[Jim Neiger]

The thing to remember about using any of the program modes is that you first need to figure out what exposure the camera will come up with and then compensate from there. What the camera will come up with is a moving target. Every time you aim the camera the exposure it calculates may change. I think learning to make consistantly proper exposures in manual mode is much easier and provides much more control. It's easier because you don't have to determine what the camera will do, you just use the cameras meter to measure reflected light and then set the proper exposure. Once you have the right exposure for a given light & subject situation, then you can just leave it there until either the light or the subject changes. You can use substitute metering when your subject is not present, but anticipated. The exposure settings will not change unless you change them. This puts you in complete control of exposures.

[alexgwoodruff]

The thing to remember about using any of the program modes is that you first need to figure out what exposure the camera will come up with and then compensate from there. What the camera will come up with is a moving target. Every time you aim the camera the exposure it calculates may change. I think learning to make consistantly proper exposures in manual mode is much easier and provides much more control. It's easier because you don't have to determine what the camera will do, you just use the cameras meter to measure reflected light and then set the proper exposure. Once you have the right exposure for a given light & subject situation, then you can just leave it there until either the light or the subject changes. You can use substitute metering when your subject is not present, but anticipated. The exposure settings will not change unless you change them. This puts you in complete control of exposures.

Thanks for that reply Jim, what you describe is my current process - I usually use manual mode, but after reading so many positive remarks about aperture priority I thought I would try it out. I will try aperture priority one more time (in the hope of improving my results, or having some awful images to post here) but I may be heading back to full manual as that is where I feel comfortable!

[Mike Fuhr]

I shoot with a Nikon also and have had the similar issues when using the point metering (vs. matrix) while shooting darker birds. The camera tries to expose for the bird often time resulting in issues in the background, particularly on bright parts of clouds, trees, etc. This is where making sure the light angle is optimal as to avoid many dark shadows that can "fool" the camera's shutter choice. Just my thoughts...

[Desmond Chan]

... when using the point metering (vs. matrix) while shooting darker birds. The camera tries to expose for the bird often time resulting in issues in the background, particularly on bright parts of clouds, trees, etc.. .

But this is the result when the dynamic range of the entire scene is too large for the film or sensor. You pick the element that you want to be properly exposed (the bird in your case ) and the elements in the other end of the dynamic range will (clouds) will go all out of whack. It's just the way it is and not the mistake of the exposure meter of Nikon or any other system. You use Canon, Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad, etc and you'd get the same result. I'd say it's like that since day one. You may be able to recover the details of the highlights though in ACR. If there's a sensor that can cover any dynamic range that you throw at it, I think there's likely no need for HDR photography we see today.

[Charles Glatzer]

Regarding Av and Eval/Matrix usage...put a stuffed animal or any subject matter on a table or whatever and take images moving your camera position to include different backgrounds such as trees, sky, grass, etc. Do the same thing changing focal length and/or going from Horz to Vert. How many of the images are correct without having to alter compensation to get back to the correct exposure value?

If the light on the subject is consistent I highly recommend using Manual Mode, as this will negate all the variables encountered above.

Meter Patterns are used to determine exposure, Metering Modes are used to adjust variables.

Best,

Chas in Jasper

[John Chardine]

Interesting discussion. I use manual mode a lot of the time now because as mentioned, it is easier in the long run and the results are better. However, I was in a situation the other day where it didn't work. The sun was low and behind me. I was shooting on a beach and the mini hills of sand and seaweed were creating areas of shadow and areas of direct setting sunlight. Once I recognised that there were opportunities in both lights I switched to Av on the markIV and set some + compensation because I had some lit water in the BG. Like others I prefer Av over Tv because of the control I have in using the optimum aperture for the lens (i.e., stopped down a little) and for depth of field. To obtain the needed shutter speed I freely adjust the ISO on the mark IV from 400-1600 or even higher if I need to. I realise that this latter technique is not a viable option in the older and noisier bodies.

[John Chardine]

But this is the result when the dynamic range of the entire scene is too large for the film or sensor. You pick the element that you want to be properly exposed (the bird in your case ) and the elements in the other end of the dynamic range will (clouds) will go all out of whack. It's just the way it is and not the mistake of the exposure meter of Nikon or any other system. You use Canon, Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad, etc and you'd get the same result. I'd say it's like that since day one. You may be able to recover the details of the highlights though in ACR. If there's a sensor that can cover any dynamic range that you throw at it, I think there's likely no need for HDR photography we see today.

You do have some control over this Desmond, as dynamic range increases with decreasing ISO. I try to use ISO 100 if I have a particularly challenging scene. The other way to take control of DR is to buy a FF 12 mp body like the Canon 5D, Nikon D700/D3/D3s as the bigger sensor sites are able to handle a wider dynamic range (or so I understand; my 5D certainly performs well in this respect).

[alexgwoodruff]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I went out this week and experimented and found that I was underusing my exposure compensation in Aperture Priority. Now I have a better understanding I will continue to practice, but at this moment my comfort still lies with manual mode. I appreciate everyones feedback though, Thanks.

[Desmond Chan]

You do have some control over this Desmond,.

And I have a Fujifilm S5 Pro ;)

[Charles Glatzer]

Interesting discussion. I use manual mode a lot of the time now because as mentioned, it is easier in the long run and the results are better. However, I was in a situation the other day where it didn't work. The sun was low and behind me. I was shooting on a beach and the mini hills of sand and seaweed were creating areas of shadow and areas of direct setting sunlight. Once I recognised that there were opportunities in both lights I switched to Av on the markIV and set some + compensation because I had some lit water in the BG. Like others I prefer Av over Tv because of the control I have in using the optimum aperture for the lens (i.e., stopped down a little) and for depth of field. To obtain the needed shutter speed I freely adjust the ISO on the mark IV from 400-1600 or even higher if I need to. I realise that this latter technique is not a viable option in the older and noisier bodies.

John,

Please explain further why Manual exposure would not work in the above example. Adding + comp in Av is not any different than decreasing shutter-speed in Manual mode.
In either Manual or Av mode... exposure is determined by the meter pattern in use. How we interrupt and subsequently adjust the exposure info provided in-camera is based upon the size of the pattern in use and the tonal values within it, regardless of whether the variables are adjusted manually or automatically.

The cognitive decision process is the same in Manual or Av...if aperture is the priority simply set the f/stop in camera first and adjust the shutter-speed accordingly to render the correct exposure in manual mode. If the desired shutter-speed cannot be selected for your chosen f/stop increase or decrease ISO.

Warmest Regards,

Chas...still in Jasper

[WIlliam Maroldo]

I am very confused after reading these posts, especially since I thought metering, or whatever meter pattern, has no effect on manual exposure at all, and I don't want it to! I shoot primarily in manual mode, which I was under the impression meant I choose the shutter-speed, F stop, and ISO, and the camera does nothing other than give me the values I requested. Since the DOF requirements and minimium shutter-speed needed to avoid blurring are fairly easy to determine, I simply use the lowest ISO possible with these two variables. A few test shots with histogram examination get me in the ball park. Actually, in practice, I initially set a greater shutter speed than I actually need, and can easily lower it to give more light if needed. If I realize I'm getting too slow I jack up the ISO. Exposure compensation has always been problematic for me, especially when using the camera's meter, and I can't see using it at all in manual mode. This being said, sometimes I must resort to Aperture priority when light is changing rapidly, and use exposure compensation and all the quessing involved. Of course the inherant problem is the camera dropping the shutter-speed too much.
Am I looking at this too simplistically? regards~Bill

[John Chardine]

John,

Please explain further why Manual exposure would not work in the above example. Adding + comp in Av is not any different than decreasing shutter-speed in Manual mode.
In either Manual or Av mode... exposure is determined by the meter pattern in use. How we interrupt and subsequently adjust the exposure info provided in-camera is based upon the size of the pattern in use and the tonal values within it, regardless of whether the variables are adjusted manually or automatically.

The cognitive decision process is the same in Manual or Av...if aperture is the priority simply set the f/stop in camera first and adjust the shutter-speed accordingly to render the correct exposure in manual mode. If the desired shutter-speed cannot be selected for your chosen f/stop increase or decrease ISO.

Warmest Regards,

Chas...still in Jasper

Hi Chas- My fault on this one as I did not explain the situation fully. I was photographing Semipalmated Plovers and Sanderlings on the beach. The former are visual feeders and run a million miles and hour, then stop and stand motionless as they look for prey, then run again. Sanderlings just run a million miles and hour all the time! As they did this the birds were moving in and out of setting sunlight and shadow rather quickly, way too quickly for me to manually adjust my exposure for each situation. I wanted to take advantage of both lighting situations so let the camera adjust the exposure in Av mode, as mentioned, with some + compensation. Where I would have been stuck is if the amount of compensation either + or - varied according to lighting conditions, which in this particular case didn't.

[John Chardine]

I am very confused after reading these posts, especially since I thought metering, or whatever meter pattern, has no effect on manual exposure at all, and I don't want it to! I shoot primarily in manual mode, which I was under the impression meant I choose the shutter-speed, F stop, and ISO, and the camera does nothing other than give me the values I requested. Since the DOF requirements and minimium shutter-speed needed to avoid blurring are fairly easy to determine, I simply use the lowest ISO possible with these two variables. A few test shots with histogram examination get me in the ball park. Actually, in practice, I initially set a greater shutter speed than I actually need, and can easily lower it to give more light if needed. If I realize I'm getting too slow I jack up the ISO. Exposure compensation has always been problematic for me, especially when using the camera's meter, and I can't see using it at all in manual mode. This being said, sometimes I must resort to Aperture priority when light is changing rapidly, and use exposure compensation and all the quessing involved. Of course the inherant problem is the camera dropping the shutter-speed too much.
Am I looking at this too simplistically? regards~Bill

Bill- Exposure compensation makes no sense in relation to manual exposure setting, although I think some use it to describe the amount the manual exposure setting varies from the metered setting.

[Charles Glatzer]

Hi Chas- My fault on this one as I did not explain the situation fully. I was photographing Semipalmated Plovers and Sanderlings on the beach. The former are visual feeders and run a million miles and hour, then stop and stand motionless as they look for prey, then run again. Sanderlings just run a million miles and hour all the time! As they did this the birds were moving in and out of setting sunlight and shadow rather quickly, way too quickly for me to manually adjust my exposure for each situation. I wanted to take advantage of both lighting situations so let the camera adjust the exposure in Av mode, as mentioned, with some + compensation. Where I would have been stuck is if the amount of compensation either + or - varied according to lighting conditions, which in this particular case didn't.

Hey John,

Thanks for the clarification...makes perfect sense.

Warm Regards,

Chas in Jasper

[Charles Glatzer]

I am very confused after reading these posts, especially since I thought metering, or whatever meter pattern, has no effect on manual exposure at all, and I don't want it to! I shoot primarily in manual mode, which I was under the impression meant I choose the shutter-speed, F stop, and ISO, and the camera does nothing other than give me the values I requested. Since the DOF requirements and minimium shutter-speed needed to avoid blurring are fairly easy to determine, I simply use the lowest ISO possible with these two variables. A few test shots with histogram examination get me in the ball park. Actually, in practice, I initially set a greater shutter speed than I actually need, and can easily lower it to give more light if needed. If I realize I'm getting too slow I jack up the ISO. Exposure compensation has always been problematic for me, especially when using the camera's meter, and I can't see using it at all in manual mode. This being said, sometimes I must resort to Aperture priority when light is changing rapidly, and use exposure compensation and all the quessing involved. Of course the inherant problem is the camera dropping the shutter-speed too much.
Am I looking at this too simplistically? regards~Bill


Bill,

Yes, in manual mode you are responsible for setting the aperture, shutter-speed, and ISO into the camera. And, your workflow is correct. But, how you initially determine the correct exposure value for a given ISO, quantity of light, and tone are based upon either the meter pattern set in-camera, a hand-held meter, or by reference value. Now once the exposure value is determined and the f/stop, shutter-speed, ISO are manually set in-camera... the pattern, etc will not automatically change any of the aforementioned variables, but the meter pattern, hand-held meter, etc can still be used as reference should the light change.

Best,

Chas