Sparrow? Adult? Juvenile?

[Julie Brown]

I first thought this bird was a sparrow, but I didn't know what species. Then I saw a photo on the web that looked very similar, but it was labeled as a juvenile brown-headed cowbird.

ID help is appreciated!:)

[Paul Lagasi]

Julie..if you check out this link below:

http://identify.whatbird.com/obj/566/overview/Bobolink.aspx

One of the images shown (scroll down the page) of a female Bobolink shows the white shoulder stripe, but that where the similarity ends. This could be a juvenile female Bobolink...but thats a real stretch on my part....

[Julie Brown]

Hi Paul. Thanks for that link. I see what you are talking about, but I am leaning toward juvenile house sparrow, although it does not show a white mark above the eye. The shape of the bill, the wing bars, and the pink legs is what I am going on. This one is tough!:confused:

[Dan Busby]

Julie - definitely not a House Sparrow. Note how the upper mandible lines up in a straight line with the top of the head. House Sparrow would have a "forehead". Also the beak is too large. This is an Icterid - a member of the blackbird family. Now I don't know the southern cowbirds well at all and I don't know where this photo was taken, but this one looks to be a Brown-headed Cowbird. And it's a youngster - note the yellowish flesh at the base of the mouth - a juvie trademark. The plumage of a growing youngster can be quite variable, including the appearance of slight "wing bars" as it acquires new feathers and this one fits what I know about BHCO. And I can't think of what else it could be. Hope this helps.

[Julie Brown]

Dan, that helps a lot! Thank you for taking the time to give me this info. I need to be more analytical and the field marks you pointed out are very useful. This photo was taken a couple of weeks ago in central Indiana. Ironically, I did think this was a brown-headed cowbird and that is what I called it on my photoblog. Then I started to doubt the ID,so I posted it here to get a definitive answer. Thanks again!

[Dan Busby]

Glad to help out Julie. I can see why this one was a bit confusing - pink legs, funny plumage. But the main characteristics carry this one. Wish I had a view of the front - that would have made it easier.

[Julie Brown]

Dan, I wish I had one too. I only got three frames of this guy. The pink legs made me doubt.

[john jackson]

Hi Julie

Your bird is a moulting House Sparrow (like this one). The beak is normal for the species and would not be level with the crown were it closed.

John

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3645854674_3263a96f55.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjbirder/3645854674/)

[John Chardine]

Thanks for the post of a House Sparrow John. The OP does not IMO have the "look and feel" of a House Sparrow at all. Here's another female HOSP for comparison. I must say though that this is not an easy one and I'm somewhat unsure!

[John Chardine]

And here's a young Brown-headed Cowbird. The body pattern is not like the OP but the face is very similar.

[john jackson]

Hi John

I cannot see anything other than typical features of a moulting House Sparrow in Julie's bird (supercilium and eyestripe behind the eye are faint but present, white covert bar, large plain rump, barred back). Your cowbird looks distinctly exotic to my English eyes and I do not see common features of shape or pattern even on the head. It has a different bill line against the head, is scaled on the crown, shows no hint of a supercilium, the loral area is dark, eye is bigger and there is a malar stripe that broadens under the ear coverts: I would jump a mile if that bird landed on my feeders; Julie's bird looks like the ones that sit there every day.

John

[Julie Brown]

Thanks to both of you guys for continuing this discussion. I find the young birds quite fascinating because they can look so different from the adults. What about the pink legs?:confused:

[john jackson]

Hi Julie

Pinks legs is OK for House Sparrow. You mentioned you had more pics. Are the poses different at all? I suspect a slightly different view might help.

John

[Julie Brown]

Thanks John. The other two frames were the same pose. I have learned a lot from this thread. I guess you and John C. still disagree on this ID?

[John Chardine]

Julie- I think it's safe to say at this stage that I am still unconvinced. It's all fascinating in that one would think a House Sparrow could be ID'd with your eyes closed so to speak. I asked our landbird biologist in our office to take a look and was careful to provide no leading statements. She is unsure of the ID. I have to say I do now see aspects of a House Sparrow in the face of the OP.

[John Chardine]

Is an immature Indigo Bunting out of the question?

[john jackson]

Indigo Bunting has an unstreaked back.

[Julie Brown]

I too find it fascinating that these immature common birds can be so difficult to ID. It turns out I do have a front view-I found it in the trash. Maybe this will help with the ID?

[Chris Sloan]

When and where was the photo taken?

[Julie Brown]

Hi Chris. It was taken on July 11 in a suburban park in Indianapolis.

[Chris Sloan]

This is a House Sparrow. The location and habitat are perfect for House Sparrow and all wrong for Bobolink. You can also rule out Bobolink based on the bill shape (Bobolink bills are narrower and more pointy). Bobolink also would show streaks on the flanks and a dark crown stripe and darker eye stripe.

It's also all wrong for Brown-headed Cowbird. A cowbird would have a mostly dark bill and would be grayer, among other things.

I think the confusion on this bird stems from the effect of the bill being open (presumably it's panting). That open bill makes the head shape look flatter and less rounded. If the bill on this bird were closed, I bet everyone would look at it and immediately recognize it as a House Sparrow. But everything else fits - the bill size and color, the eye stripe, the overall potato/brown coloration, etc.

[Julie Brown]

OK, here is a pose with the bill closed. So far, House Sparrow has the most votes. Is this the clincher?

[Dan Busby]

Seeming more like a House Sparrow to me now Julie - that frontal view seems to rule out cowbird. I have a bunch of young House Sparrows at my feeder and none look like this bird :confused:. But looking at the tail feathers it shows that this bird is just getting in its full compliment of feathers so that may explain why the feather pattern isn't what some of us would expect on a young HS.

[Julie Brown]

Thanks Paul, Dan, Chris, John J, and John C, for this discussion. The differences between juveniles and adults is very interesting and gives me a new challenge for summer birds.

[Wayne Richardson]

Hu Julie

This is a adult female House Sparrow undergoing post-breeding moult. Notice her overall untidy appearance & particularly the differance between the new & old tail feathers. Juveniles would have feathers all of the same age, so would be neat in comparison.

Cheers: Wayne

[Julie Brown]

A belated thanks to you Wayne for your input!:)