Not sure

[Desmond Chan]

105mm on D700 on tripod. ISO 200 f16 1/15s.

Tried first time converting to B&W with the Greg Gorman method. Slight crop, dodge and burn applied.

Not sure about this one (esp re composition) so would like to hear what you think. Comments welcome and appreciated !

Thanks !

[Julie Kenward]

Desmond, I'm unfamiliar with this person's method but I think I can give you a couple of pointers, here.

First, remember that black and white images are all about tonal range. You want as many shades of white, gray and black as you can possibly get into an image to make it have depth and to help hold the viewer's interest. If this is a single colored flower you are already at a disadvantage because you can't get a lot of tonal range from a single color unless you have a huge range of lighting (shadows, bright spots, etc.)

That said, you can still do somethings in pp. Burning and dodging help to bring out the different areas and increase the tonal range in pp. Try lightening up the top petals more than the middle petals and the middle petals more than the lower petals. Bring up the dark BG a bit to show the foliage a little more - let it hold most of the darkest range while the flower holds most of the light range. Another way to go is to use a duplicate layer and change it to screen mode and then adjust the opacity so the top petals are where you want them and then mask off everything else. Do another duplicate layer, screen mode again but at less opacity, and mask off everything but the petals you want to take on those tones. Repeat the process until you have each petal "layer" where you want it.

I think you're off to a good start but more variation and tones can still be brought in - it just takes time to play and bring it all out.

If you want to learn more about black and white photos for a very reasonable price, David DuChemin has a set of e-books that he sells for $5.00 each and the last two have been on b&w photography. Use the promo code MAGIC4 and you'll get the book for $4.00! I read the first one about how to "see" black and white photography in the field and it was excellent - certainly worth the $5.00. I just downloaded the second book on creating black and white photos but haven't read it yet - but I'm sure it will be a great buy for the price. These books are all at http://craftandvision.com/index.html.

[Desmond Chan]

Desmond, I'm unfamiliar with this person's method but I think I can give you a couple of pointers, here.

Thank you.


First, remember that black and white images are all about tonal range. Yes and no, I think. In the history of photography, there are some b&w photos and that are kind of low contrast images, some with high contrast, and then some like those of Ansel Adams'. What if the subject only has a couple of tones? Do you think you should expand it to 10 (with Zone I and Zone X with no details), too?


You want as many shades of white, gray and black as you can possibly get into an image to make it have depth and to help hold the viewer's interest. If this is a single colored flower you are already at a disadvantage because you can't get a lot of tonal range from a single color unless you have a huge range of lighting (shadows, bright spots, etc.) I agree with you on it's about light and shadow, but I don't think a single color flower is necessary a bad thing for black and white photos. After all, how many flowers have more than one color?


That said, you can still do somethings in pp. Burning and dodging help to bring out the different areas and increase the tonal range in pp. Bring up the dark BG a bit to show the foliage a little more Well, if I had not burned a lot of the background, then it's likely I would receive comments such as: " I found that little leaf in the background distracting" :) Besides, what if I like to have a all black background for this one, like some of the images we have seen here which the photogs deliberately used a all black background in their photos? But I suppose you would like to see more in the background on this one then ;) That was my original thought, too. But decided to darken it a bit more.


let it hold most of the darkest range while the flower holds most of the light range. But, isn't it the case in the image?


I think you're off to a good start but more variation and tones can still be brought in - it just takes time to play and bring it all out. Right now this image already have eight zones in it. Or nine according to Silver Efex Pro. It's not a white flower and so, if I'd chose to, the highest I would go would be a Zone IX on any petals. Since there's no blown hightlights (Zone X) in the entire original image, I decided not to create any of them in the final image.


If you want to learn more about black and white photos for a very reasonable price, David DuChemin has a set of e-books that he sells for $5.00 each and the last two have been on b&w photography. Use the promo code MAGIC4 and you'll get the book for $4.00! I read the first one about how to "see" black and white photography in the field and it was excellent - certainly worth the $5.00. I just downloaded the second book on creating black and white photos but haven't read it yet - but I'm sure it will be a great buy for the price. These books are all at http://craftandvision.com/index.html.Thank you for the suggestions! As I have many materials already, ranging from books from photographer that are dead sometime ago up to articles and DVD of active photographers of today, I think I'd leave DuChemin's alone for now :) But, I did get a copy of his Within The Frame after reading some comments about his book on the net. Surprised to find he's a local. Next time I'm on the streets, I'd better keep my eyes open :D

I think what you're saying about this image is it does not have enough tones in it for you. Thank you for the detailed comments, Julie !

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hey Desmond,
Not familiar with Silver effex pro but gave it a go with a few B/C layers selectively and 1 levels layer as well as some dodging and burning.....all at very low opacities.....very subtle. Biggest thing for me was crop......made the subtle leaf line more prominant leading up to the rose.
Remember, my changes were very subtle on a few petal areas....so not much there and the dodging and burning was mostly to BG stuff.....just to slightly bring out or hide certain elements. I think you did an excellent job here overall...definitely a keeper in my book!!! Let me know your thoughts!

[Desmond Chan]

Thanks for the repost, Roman ! I can see some more details there.

The main thing that I wasn't sure about my original was the composition and I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. I thought it was the leaves near the bottom of the photo and was thinking if I should clone some of them out...Your repost solved my problem, Roman ;)

[Anita Bower]

I like it! I like Roman's repost even more. Cropping off some of the top did the job for me. Lovely composition.