February Discussion: Participation!

[Julie Kenward]

I've noticed two trends in this forum of late and wanted to bring them to everyone's attention. First, I'm seeing over 20 "hits" on a single image without a single person leaving a comment. I know we've had a lot of new people join in the past six months and I'm assuming they are a bit nervous about commenting but that's what the forums are for! Anyone viewing an image on any of the critiquing forums should be able to leave a comment or question for the person who created the image, regardless of your skill level. Ask about the lighting. Ask about the set up. Give a critique of their composition, lens choice, shutter speed, aperture, etc. By looking at how someone created their image you will very quickly learn how to do a better job with YOUR camera! Don't be afraid to comment!

The only comment we NEVER want to hear is "Great shot!" :(:(:( (Unless, of course, you follow that up with a detailed critique of WHY you think it is an exceptional image.) When commenting, try to find something you think the artist/photographer did really well ("I like where you placed the flower in the frame" or "I love the detail you captured on his wings.") Then, try to find something you think they could improve upon (as most images are not perfect!) Perhaps, "The image feels a little dark" or "stopping down on the aperture would have given you better details in the entire flower" are good examples. Don't be afraid of being technical and don't worry if all you have to express is an opinion. We all know why we do or don't like something about an image and letting the artist/photographer know that helps them better compose images in the future!

The other issue I wish to bring up is a reminder of the BPN guideline that if you have the time to post a new image you should also take the time to COMMENT on at least 3-5 other images. In other words, don't just post, run off to take some more photographs, post again, run off to process some more images...you get the picture (now there's a pun for ya!) This is an idea EXCHANGE. Be involved in your images and those of your co-contributors! Look for images that don't have a lot of comments on them and offer some helpful suggestions. It will make the experience of these forums so much more educational if we all get involved and speak up!

And please don't worry if your english is a little rusty...we'll do our best to understand and help you, too! Now jump in everyone! Tell me what you think!

[Jackie Schuknecht]

Julie, I have noticed this too. I always try to comment on at least five images for one post. I do find however that some people who have been here for a while continue to post w/o making comments. Bad form IMHO. In general I find in ETL and OOTB there is a pretty good participation rate. Not sure about the others.

[Julie Brown]

Thanks for that info Jules. As a new member I was initially reluctant to comment or post images. Then I read the guidelines and have jumped in. This is a fun process and everyone is so cordial and helpful.

[Ken Childs]

Jules,

Is "I agree with what's already been said" a legitimate way to comment? A few times I went to comment on something and any comments/suggestions I would have made were already covered by previous posters so I didn't say anything.

I wouldn't say exactly what's in quotes above but it would basically be a reinforcement of what's already been said. More like "Jules already said what I was thinking. This image might be more interesting with a landscape crop, etc"

[Jay Gould]

Hi Jules, this topic can NEVER be over done or posted too often. Having said that why is it posted in Macro and not in the general discussion forum?

Certainly we should be providing 3-5 "feellings" about each others' image for each we post; we get so much from everyone we have to give back!

Of course when something like this is opened for discussion I will add my pet peave: I cannot understand why after being a nonpaying particpant for a few months, participants are not willing to spend $20/year to become a forum member of the best photographic teaching net on the internet!

[Julie Brown]

Jay, just so you know- this is the best $20 I have ever spent!!!:D

[Jay Gould]

Jay, just so you know- this is the best $20 I have ever spent!!!:D

I do know! That is why I became LTM 1 - I knew was going to be a member for life!!

[Julie Kenward]

Jackie: I understand what you are saying - some people would rather "receive" than "give" I guess. You are certainly welcome not to comment on images presented by people who never give a comment...that's certainly everyone's right - and it might just make them want to participate more if that happened! ;) However, as a moderator, I kick in on as many as I have time to review - no matter what.

Ken: I think that's a perfectly acceptable comment when there is nothing that you can think of to add. It lets the viewer know you were there, saw the image, and agree with the others.

Jay: This is in the Macro/Flora forum because once a month I want to discuss things particularly as they relate to this individual forum. Anyone is welcome to present the same question in the general discussion forum but here it was meant to grab the attention of those most likely to be the people who view/critique this forum's images. Make sense?

Also, for whatever reason, if someone doesn't want to join BPN that is certainly their right. I felt it was worth the $20 when I first joined to be able to post directly from my computer and to be able to post and get feedback every 24 hours - but others might not feel the same way.

And I'd like to add one more thing if I may...

Last weekend I posted an image here on the macro forum and 28 people viewed it and NOT ONE COMMENT. I pulled the image because, quite frankly, I had a little temper tantrum over the whole thing. Please don't ever feel like just because a moderator posts an image we don't want any constructive criticism or personal opinions on our images. We are growing artists just like the rest of you out there so give it to us straight and never be afraid to comment - we wouldn't post if we didn't want other people's opinions and/or suggestions!

[Christopher Miller]

Very good discussion, Jules. I definitely agree with and do my best to follow the points you've made. I do have to admit though that quite often I will view images here in the macro forum but don't always have the time to comment on them. Any time I post an image here though I do make sure to comment on at least 3-5 if not more.

PS. BTW I did view the image that you had posted and was composing a comment on it when you pulled it, so not everyone was ignoring it.

[Jerry van Dijk]

Hi Jules, good that you raise this topic. I had noticed similar things on the macro forum (even posting got a bit slow in December, which has been solved by the active participation of a lot of new members and participants :)).
One question I have is whether views from people who don't participate in the BPN website, i.e. non-registered visitors, are also noted in the view counter. Before I was actively involved in nature photography and joined the site, I came popping in now and again to just enjoy the natural wonders presented here. Also, if you Google a specific species, you often end up here. If these visits are also counted, you can easily get loads of views without any comments, which has nothing to do with a lack of active participation of BPN participants and members. But again, I'm not sure if it works that way.
Just to confirm one of your points: I have learned LOADS about (digital) photography since I joined the site and it is my experience that I have learned as much (if not more!) from analysing and commenting on (or even better, downloading the image and playing with it until I had solved the critique points I had) other peoples photographs as I have from the comments given on my own photos.

[Peter Farrell]

Jules, You are 100% correct. I am guilty of this and will try to do better. I have read just about every critique since I have joined and have learned a lot, well worth $20.

[Julie Kenward]

Chris: Thanks...it makes me feel better to know SOMEONE had an opinion! I was starting to think I was jinxed or something!

Jerry, I'm not sure about the answer to your question about hits on the counter but that's a good point. I'll try to find out. Still, it's pretty rare that we get 20-30 people looking and not one comment and I've seen that quite a bit lately. Just wanted to remind everyone we all learn more through active participation!

Peter: Always good to hear someone got their money's worth! I think it's a steal at this price. I've looked at other nature forums and none of them give you all this for $20. What a deal!