Canon 1dMKIII Is it safe?

[Steve Ashton]

Guys I am a full time pro photographer (not wildlife) I have both the 1dsMKII and the 1dMKIIn bodies both of which are in need of replacing They get some heavy use.

Question is which way do I go? The new 1DS seems way to slow and to high resolution for me. I had 2 MKIIIs taken back by Canon they said they could not fix the focus problem (all 3 went off focus in single shot) What is the status on the latest bodies?

At present I am making do with 5Ds a great camera but no were near strong enough and the viewfinder just fills up with dust and crap.

I am lost as to the best way ahead. I am very serious about looking at Nikon but I love the fast Canon primes. My only long lens is a 300 F2.8 which I can sell easily.

My work is wedding and press my hobby is birds and wildlife which way would you go? I really appreciate any advice.

[Jim Neiger]

I think it's still a bit of a risk, but if you are a full time pro, it may be a justifiable risk. I've had a working 1D3 since July, but it died on me a couple of days ago and now needs to go in for service. It's still the best camera I've had by far and wouldn't hesitate to get one if I needed it.

[Art Peslak]

I had 3 Mark III's. An original that had the submirror fix, a blue dot that would not focus on anything and went back to the dealer and another blue dot. The blue dot and the fixed original were better after the fix than before but still could not hold focus properly during a sequence of shots. If you are using a 5D and don't shoot action, the Mark III may serve you well. I chose to switch to Nikon because the first fix did not work for my photography and I have no confidence that Canon knows how to fix it even thought they now claim to have a new fix coming.

The Canon L-glass holds its value very well and I did well selling my lenses. I did lose some money on the mark iii bodies.

Only you can answer for your photography but I can tell you that I am very pleased with the AF and IQ of the Nikon D3.

[Doug West]

Lets say Steve wants to purchase the new body.

How can he tell that the Mark III he's getting is the
newer one, not some Mark III that first came of the
assembly line and some company is trying to dump?

Doug

[Steve Ashton]

Thanks Doug, That is a key question. There just seems a massive loss of confidence in Canon. Some press friends working for Getty are not able to get answers and it seems Getty work with Canon on development.

Also the resolution on the 1DS MkIII seems crazy to me full frame for wedding & press work is great. But 21MP??

Its so easy to get into the old Nikon Canon debacle but at the moment Its a real problem.... My main local dealer refuses to sell the 1D all his have gone back.

[Ed Cordes]

I think it's still a bit of a risk, but if you are a full time pro, it may be a justifiable risk. I've had a working 1D3 since July, but it died on me a couple of days ago and now needs to go in for service. It's still the best camera I've had by far and wouldn't hesitate to get one if I needed it.

Jim, sorry to hear about your Mark 3.. I know you have been one of the pros who have had just outstanding results with it.

What happened? Is it just the usual "stuff" that can occur to anyone any time, or is it another Mark 3 gremlin?

I am like Steve. I really want a Mark 3, but have resisted due to the issues reported.

[Alfred Forns]

Steve I would suggest going to Nikon

Just learned of another fix for the MK3 Reported on DP I think they are going to start making the repair in May The camera came out in June Does it seem logical to have something that does not work for one year?

I understand there are people that say the AF works to perfection etc Most are not using the 45 point (all points) does it make sense having a Pro body and you have to be limited to the central sensor?

I made the switch last Sept Have both D300 and D3 Both amazing Last week I was able to photograph a purple gallinule at Shark Valley Tough situation with the heavy bg clutter I used the 51 point 3D AF color tracking and nailed the little guy

Wish you could try one for yourself It is the only way to make a rational decision One note and it is a personal gut feeling The new fix for the MK3 will do the trick If you don't have to be in a rush waiting might be the best solution

[Steve Ashton]

Alfred thanks for that information and your opinions seem to make a lot of sense. I have a few people lined up who want to purchase some of my Canon glass. The bodies have earned their keep and are now well past best. I think I will be returning to the dark side. I plan on renting a D3 for a few days and seeing how it goes. Must admit I am interested to know how how guys like Artie are making the mkIII work so well.

I need to make a decision but can wait a few months so will wait before I make the final move. Once again many thanks.

[Rene A]

At this point I would advise people NOT buy a Mark III. Even with a blue dot or fix it's working not as should for too many people include mine.

[Paul Merritt]

The new fix for the MK3 will do the trick If you don't have to be in a rush waiting might be the best solution

Well, I too would like to purchase the MK3. Al when you say, "the new fix." What are you refering to? Will it be fixed with a firmware update and just what exactly needs fixing?

I am still shooting with a 20D and I could pick up a 40D and wait for the MK3 to get sorted out. But I need to know what it is I am waiting for.

[gary rouleau]

I was going to switch as well, but after watching someone at the Bosque Del Apache curse to high heaven his new mark3 when it failed (the end of his trip -oops no backup camera) was enough for me to wait. There is only one thing to say "The MARK 2N rocks" and is worth getting it refurbished until canon gets their act straight.
That's my 2 cents.
gary

[Grady Weed]

I am glad I did not go with the MK3, instead I bought the MK2n used with only 4500 clicks on it. I love this camera. I also use my 5D. Having used it for weddings, scenics and then birding for 3 years, it made me more patient. I am going to keep my Canon bodies along with my 300 2.8, 100-400, 28-135 and my 100 macro, all L glass with IS. I started out with 2 EOS Elan llE's. I would have gone over to Nikon so when I shoot with friends in Florida we would be the same. But I am happy for now. I would not buy a MK3 for anything.

I am not a pro, do not make my living with my work that is. I do make my living building and maintaining custom networks and high end PC's. So when Canon kicked themsleves in the rear with the MK3 debacle, then aplied the Microsoft service pack technique, I said no way. You don't fix things by making the consumer, who payed big bucks for the best of the best, wait and then try out the fix to see if it works. R&D fell flat on their faces with this one.

The consumer who buy's high end does not want to be the test pig for someone. No one should be.

[Alfred Forns]

Paul there is a new hardware fix in the works This is after the sub-mirror fix and numerous software fixes !!!

All Mk3 do and are making some sharp images of a high quality They are not consistent If you compare a Mk2n to the Mk3 overall there will be a higher percentage of sharp images with the older camera People shooting the Mk3 don't want to go back because the image quality

With my D3 if have both A working AF and quality .... even much better in the ISO dept !!!

I honestly don't think there is anyone that can give you a good reason form changing or not doing so The decision is based of individual need The main think is to do so in a rational manner.

[Vladimir Stoyanov]

OK, but how long should we wait for the new fix? Some information?
I am going to decide which one to buy, very soon - 1D Mk2 N or 1D Mk III.
If I would have "self cleaning" matrix with 14 bits color "bokeh", I will prefer the non "self cleaning matrix" with 12 bits color and perfect focused pictures. So, in which cases it works fine or just the cases, that AI Servo doesn't work?

Thanks a lot in advanced.

[Robert O'Toole]

Guys I am a full time pro photographer (not wildlife) I have both the 1dsMKII and the 1dMKIIn bodies both of which are in need of replacing They get some heavy use.

I had 2 MKIIIs taken back by Canon they said they could not fix the focus problem (all 3 went off focus in single shot) What is the status on the latest bodies?

I really appreciate any advice.

Hi Steve dont forget even if Canon does "fix" the issues, the MKIII is a case of too little too late. I dont think the features specs, or the AF can compare even with a $1800 D300.
That said the MKIII files are the some of the cleanest I have ever seen but for $4500 the are more modern alternatives like the D3.
FYI, I own both Canon and Nikon. I would recommend giving other recently released cameras, even other brands, a careful look.

Robert

[Robert Amoruso]

Paul there is a new hardware fix in the works This is after the sub-mirror fix and numerous software fixes !!!

All Mk3 do and are making some sharp images of a high quality They are not consistent If you compare a Mk2n to the Mk3 overall there will be a higher percentage of sharp images with the older camera People shooting the Mk3 don't want to go back because the image quality

With my D3 if have both A working AF and quality .... even much better in the ISO dept !!!

I honestly don't think there is anyone that can give you a good reason form changing or not doing so The decision is based of individual need The main think is to do so in a rational manner.

Alfred's assessment is correct. I have a 1DMarkIII with the sub-mirror fix and it just presented a whole new bunch of issues that I am trying to deal with. I just got used to the eccentricities of the un-fixed one and now it is goofier then ever. Waiting to May and using my 1D Mark IIn and new Nikon D300.

[Gib Robinson]

Steve,

If you can wait for the next "fix", that would be the safest route. If not, I assume you have a relationship with a dealer who could let you take a 1D3 out of the store to take some images and look at the quality of the files as well as the accuracy of the AF. The sub-mirror fix did not solve all the problems for the camera, but I would guess you shoot with the one-shot setting rather than AI Servo. If so, I think it would be worth trying out the camera. In many ways it is still a very good camera.

On the other hand, if I were shooting weddings, I'd want wide glass. That seems to be a Nikon strength and a Canon weakness.

[Pete Woods]

I read all this and laugh... I was determined not to reply. But could not resist any longer

Many many 1D3 owners are having great results with the camera, I for one and looking at Arties 1D3 images he is another. The trouble with all forums is whingers. I would include myself in this. Forums are a great platform to have a moan or whinge if something is not right. Not many people though will go out of there way to praise the camera, why should you if it is working well for you.. It is the nature of humans, we love to complain. ;)
The new Blue Dot versions of the camera work as it should (my view and that of many other owners).

I would hire one or buy one from a Pro Canon dealer which will refund if not up to spec. I was an early adopter and am on my third, which is a Blue Dot and is a big improvement on my first. Whether that is due to the sub mirror or Firmware or both I do not know. what I do know is it works for me in one shot and AIServo... :)

As for another fix, This is just speculation which at the moment is being denied by Canon (inc Canon USA).

[Steve Ashton]

Pete Thanks for the reply but I must raise some points as to why I have a whinge.

Firstly I purchased 2 x IDMKIII bodies both had focus issues Yes the Servo focus problem was present in one body but both bodies drifted of focus in single shot AF. One of the bodies just crashed and gave a EEEEE message each time it was used.

My local dealer was fantastic they gave me two new bodies within 3 weeks of my purchase. These two new bodies both had the focus problem in single shot AF. One ran flat a battery in about 1 hour of use. Thinking I was having some problem with the use of the camera such as releasing the shutter button and loosing focus (I had been using the MKIIn and 1Ds MkII bodies so I know them well) I gave the two bodies to a Getty Images staffer who is a sport expert He had the same problems with the cameras.

I contacted Canon and am still 4 months later waiting for a response. Their customer service is a disgrace. My dealer replaced a body with a brand new body The other went off for repair. Again both bodies had problems. In the end we gave up and I was given a refund.

The latest fix is NOT just speculation it is a fact that Getty cameras are being done now and repair agents are being trained to do the Fix.

I fully accept Arthur and others are getting great results and when they work the image quality is fantastic. If I knew how to make the bodies work I would. Fact is they are a very unreliable item of kit. Also I know I am not Canons biggest customer by far but with over £50K of kit I would expect some respect and honesty.

As to being able to hire the body most rental dealers wont stock them and most dealers wont sell them. As to the latest fix of course it will be denied by Canon... how long did it take to accept the initial problem? I sat with a Canon dealer memo in front of me and they denied a problem on the phone.

In my opinion AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME Canon do not have a viable working pro hi speed body available. The range available is at present lacking in many areas... One TOP fleet street Guardian photographer who did work for Canon has moved to Nikon.

I see it every day the move to NIKON is massive at the moment. From a work point I dont give a dam if its NIkon or Canon or any other brand I just must work!!! As for me moving to Nikon Possibly NPS have been very kind in loaning me some test kit and this is strange considering I am a CPS member!!!

[Grady Weed]

As I said before. The consumer should not be made to test out someones problem product. A few working cameras or those who have found a way to make them work, does not give a manufacturer the right to ignore a huge issue as Canon has done with the "flagship" model.

Pete; I am not a whiner. And I am insulted that someone has called those who responded to this thread "whiners". When you pay a huge sum of money to own the best of a product line you are loyal to, you expect the best. Period. End of discussion.

A lot of pro shooters will be going over to Nikon or who ever. As Steve said, you want whatever you buy to just work, as stated by the manufacturer. If you can't make a product that works, then go make something else or go home. I will keep my Canon bodies, they work. But I will not buy a MK3 that "might" work, no way!

To call your fellow shooters whiners, is insulting. I am glad a few owners have had good success with their purchase, Artie and others here included. But don't categorize the rest of us as "whiners".

Thank you Steve for responding to the above post. This nagging thread and others like it will not go away until Canon fixes the issue and does it right!

[Pete Woods]

Grady _ Pull your neck in, I did not call you a whiner personally - read my thread. I said forums are a good place for people to whinge and I did include myself if you bothered to read my post properly......

[Johnny Bravo]

I'm with Pete on this one. I've a MIII and have never had a problem with it. It was one of the 'affected cameras', so I sent it in. Gee, it STILL works fine.

I've also got a 1DSIII and I have to say, until you've seen the images this camera produces you simply haven't got a clue what you're missing. It's a stunning, fabulous piece of gear. Last I checked Nikon didn't offer a body that would hold a candle to it. Nobody does. (Note: This is not a 'wedding camera' or a 'portrait camera', this is one of the finest Nature cameras available today)

I read the '21mpixels? That's just rediculous' posts with a big chuckle. I also read the 'I won't switch to single focus point' post with a chuckle. I'm starting to believe that Canon's big failing is that they don't produce a chip that will think, or learn, or operate the gear, for the photographer who isn't so inclined. Oh well.

Personally, I'm delighted that some are switching over to Nikon. I'll be able to browse the inventory of all the great canon glass that's going to change hands!

[Grady Weed]

Pete, I have been a Network Repair Technician, Network Administrator and now a self employed Hardware Software Technician going on 18 years now. I am responsible at times for hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment purchases. My clients depend on me to give them sound advice. Irreplaceable data and a ton of money can be lost if you give wrong advice. I deal with high stress situations on a daily basis. Thats what my clients pay me to do. and I do it right the first time.

And just to let you know, I can read too. I read your post and every line in this thread.

I have also managed call centers that supported 50-60 different products. My first phone room made over 20 million dollars in the first 2 years. I have fired many phone reps for lying to the customer and misrepresenting stats to the clients.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of folks who have a working product and consider themselves to be a expert just because they do. Many end users who do specific things on a daily basis think they are computer gurus and give fellow users their expert opinions. Almost 99.9% of the time they end up making the situation worse. And I end up fixing the mess.

Just because you and a small or large percentage of others have a working camera does not mean that a serious problem does not exist. When you see thousands of broken products or take thousands of tech support calls and see the other side of the street, then you can call yourself an expert or perhaps a little more knowledgeable.

I personally take every opportunity to look for a better way, improve my skills, ask for help from qualified individuals, stay positive on each service call, and try to think before I speak. And never run down the competition. These forums are provided to express opinions and to help others to improve.

It is true some take things out of context and whine. But the Canon MK3 situation will not improve if the responsible personnel do not take the matter seriously and correct the issues at present. I am glad you have a working camera. Some do not. and at $4,500 and lost time counting, they deserve to have it looked at promptly. And by the way, I have seen the images produced by the MK3, they are nice. Make all of the cameras work and they will have a winner and the whining will stop.

[Steve Ashton]

Johnny Bravo.... maybe you should have read the 21mp post with a tad more attention. In the context it was meant 21mp being available as the only option in a pro full frame camera is IMHO a joke. The point is its the only option. The 5D is a great body but not very strong or damp proof. The 1DSmkIII is fantastic I have one sat next to me right now. The point of much of this is that Canon DON't listen to working pros. The DOFP button situation is a case in point. Most press guys and wedding photographer type pros NEED a full frame fast simple body. The fact that Nikon don't have a body to compete with the 1Ds is im sure soon to be changed.... Your opinion is welcome and Im glad you got a chuckle

At the moment I am not having a chuckle and IF Artie and these people are able to help I would be glad to listen. But I think Canon should be helping those of us with a problem.. I hope you never need to deal with Canon service.

[Don Kates]

Steve,
I have to take issue with your last statement. There is good and bad service from both Canon and Nikon and I would never defend nor dispute anyone's poor service from either company. But I can say that my last 2 years of customer service from Canon has been far superior to 20 years of service from Nikon - even as an NPS member. My wife also shoots professionally and she has had equally bad service. I stuck with Nikon for years because I liked their product but after the failure of a D2x and the coveted 200-400vr lens along with months of no replacement equipment (as NPS offers) and no word from anyone at Nikon about my equipment, I switched to Canon.

For me, Canon's products have performed quite well, with the exception of the 1dMKIII. But the service I've received on that camera has been outstanding. And I can tell you that some of the things Canon has done for me since the problems began with the camera, Nikon never even came close to matching.

These two companies will continue to leap-frog each other with regards to equipment and, I'm sure, with regards to service on that equipment. But I don't think we should be implying that service from either company is and will be bad across the board.

On the other hand, I like your statement: . . . "and IF Artie and these people are able to help I would be glad to listen." I too would like to hear from him on this issue - not in a newsletter, but here on this thread. I think it would be appreciated by all who also use this camera.

[Steve Ashton]

Thanks for all the comments guys. Don I accept your issue and I guess we just need to accept that all companies at times offer good and bad service. After much and very intense review of both systems. I have come to a conclusion. This is my own opinion,

At this present time Nikon is able to provide the best and most reliable body for many users. However I accept the Canon 1DS MkIII is in a league of its own. As I work in a multi discipline photo business Canon is still the best all round offering. I as Don states they two major brands will just keep leap frogging. I have decided to keep with the Canon system in the main because of the superb fast lenses available and also the cost involved in a change of system is just not an option. We would end up operating two stems in the business which is not sensible.

I am going to ave a go and purchase a 1DMKIII again and see how it goes. Also after a week with the IDS I just must have one its that good.

As a conclusion its interesting to note how many of these manufacturers mistakes we are left to pay for. I use the Leica M8 as an example. They now want us to pay over £1k to update what was a less than right camera to start with. I have just read a test report on the new canon 16-35mm MkII which states whilst the edges are now better overall sharpness past 24mm is less than good.

I hope Artie takes no offence at my request it was aimed at Canon who I feel should relase ANY AND ALL information to help users having these problems. If he has an answer THEY should pay him to share the info.

Anyway rants over I shall now go and place some orders and see how we go.

[Don Kates]

Steve,
Email me from my website. I have some information that may interest you.

[Jeroen Stel]

Hi Guys,

I have also purchased a Canon 1D Mark 3 and have had some problems with working in Ai Servo mode when the camera is faced with cluttered backgrounds it just won't focus. I have had the camera "fixed" by Canon but the problem is still there...
I am hoping for a new fix wich will help solve the AF problems.

On the other hand i would not trade this camera for my previously owned 1D Mark2N as the ISO and speed results of this camera ar far better. I shoot better images in shady situations at 1600-2000 ISO then i did at 400 ISO with the Mark2N. Ofcourse i too get crancky when a bird flies in front of a cluttered BG and the camera stops focussing but for all other situations i would highly recommend it!

Just hope Canon comes up with a fix real soon!

Greetings,

Jeroen Stel

[Dave Courtenay]

some new news

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9299

[Steve Ashton]

Some information on top of this. I spoke to a senior photo Dept manager at a very big agency and he tells me a Canon rep informed him that the 1.3x crop bodies will be stopped in a attempt to get some credit back canon are to release early a full frame high speed camera by the end of May. Which was due for release late next year.

Please note this is what i was told I can only take it on face value...... just for the record this guy had 3 1DsMKIII bodies 2 months before they were mentioned in the press. He has not yet been wrong. He also made some mention some 8 months ago about a 800mm and yesterday spoke of a Canon 200-400 F4.0

All interesting stuff......... Please don't shoot the delivery boy !!!!!

[D. Robert Franz]

Some information on top of this. I spoke to a senior photo Dept manager at a very big agency and he tells me a Canon rep informed him that the 1.3x crop bodies will be stopped in a attempt to get some credit back canon are to release early a full frame high speed camera by the end of May. Which was due for release late next year.

Please note this is what i was told I can only take it on face value...... just for the record this guy had 3 1DsMKIII bodies 2 months before they were mentioned in the press. He has not yet been wrong. He also made some mention some 8 months ago about a 800mm and yesterday spoke of a Canon 200-400 F4.0

All interesting stuff......... Please don't shoot the delivery boy !!!!!

Not sure what the 1.3 crop would have to do with anything other than competition with the D3 but the 1.3 crop is adored by sports photographers and I too would prefer having the 1.3 crop as an option.

Now the 200-400 would be very welcome..

My repaired MK3 is now focusing great on BIF with busy BGs. I've been able to aquire ducks in flight against real busy BGs with all 45 lit up better than any other Canon body I've used in the past. Lightning quick acquisition and the focus stays on the bird.

[Ben Page]

My repaired MK3 is now focusing great on BIF with busy BGs. I've been able to aquire ducks in flight against real busy BGs with all 45 lit up better than any other Canon body I've used in the past. Lightning quick acquisition and the focus stays on the bird.

That's good news, I got my mailing labels from Canon today so my MK3 will be going off early next week for the fix :)

And that 200-400 would be very welcome, would go straight to the top of my shopping list!

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Some information on top of this. I spoke to a senior photo Dept manager at a very big agency and he tells me a Canon rep informed him that the 1.3x crop bodies will be stopped in a attempt to get some credit back canon are to release early a full frame high speed camera by the end of May. Which was due for release late next year.

Please note this is what i was told I can only take it on face value...... just for the record this guy had 3 1DsMKIII bodies 2 months before they were mentioned in the press. He has not yet been wrong. He also made some mention some 8 months ago about a 800mm and yesterday spoke of a Canon 200-400 F4.0

All interesting stuff......... Please don't shoot the delivery boy !!!!!

Hey Steve,
Thanks for sharing the info. It is really interesting. Personally, I like the 1.3 crop factor. If a new camera is launched in May, then I can give the 1D Mark III a miss. The 200-400 f4 is definitely interesting. I was needing a quality zoom. I use the 70-200 f2.8 L IS zoom. But, when coupled with converters, the quality becomes an issue. So the 200-400 will be of real help. Ofcourse, you can expect that it will be several months down the line. I hope your info comes true.

[J Lynn Bacon]

Thanks BPN, great thread. Thanks Steve for latest whispers. Thanks Hunt's.

I held off till the blue dots. Loved my blue dot 1D MkIII, until it started giving error messages, and then died fourth day in Tanzania. My 5D back up saved the trip, but is not equal to a Mk II or a Mk III for wildlife; some valuable shots were missed. Never had error messages with the 5D, Mk II & IIN. Apparently many other MkIII users have had them too.

Hunt's have been terrific in support, but I am waiting till May to replace the Mk III. I have a trip in June, so will have to decide then. Either a Mk III or a 1.3 crop if it arrives! Maybe a used Mk IIN for back up (should never have sold my old one so early). Can't afford to switch to Nikon, though it is tempting. The 200-400 f4.0 sounds good!

My lessons have been learned the hard way. I will never again sell my old bodies till the new bodies have a proven track record. The gain in money for early selling is not worth what I now know is a gamble, even with pro bodies. :D

Best
Lynn Bacon

[Grady Weed]

Thanks BPN, great thread. Thanks Steve for latest whispers. Thanks Hunt's.

My lessons have been learned the hard way. I will never again sell my old bodies till the new bodies have a proven track record. The gain in money for early selling is not worth what I now know is a gamble, even with pro bodies. :D

Best
Lynn Bacon

Excellent advice!