Canon to Nikon opinions sought

[Ben Page]

Hi folks,

I'm after some objective opinions regarding switching from Canon to Nikon.

A little background; I'm a keen amateur wildlife photographer scraping together every last penny I can to feed my hobby, currently using a Canon 1D mark 3 (ok, you can guess the reason for this post!) with a variety of lenses from 24-105mm up to 100-400mm (including the lovely 300mm f/2.8 which is my primary lens of choice). I'm noticing more and more recently that the camera is front focusing on slow, steady moving subjects when they are coming straight at me (e.g. otter swimming) and miss focusing on relatively static subjects (e.g. birds sitting on a perch) even though things look in focus through the view finder. Don't get me wrong, when it's right the images are superb. It's just I'm feeling it's more difficult to trust that when I press the shutter button, any errors are down to me rather than the equipment. It's really starting to put a dampener on my enjoyment of photography.

My camera hasn't been through the Canon fix (registered on 14th Jan, heard nothing back yet), but having read many reports about the varied results I'm not too convinced that it will fix the issues.

I've been reading many good things about the Nikon D3 and am thinking about trading in all my Canon kit and getting a D3 with the Nikon 200-400mm lens (I'll probably have to throw in a few quid too after the quotes I've received). I think this will be sufficient for my needs for starters and I can always add lenses and accessories later (overtime and understanding wife permitting!).

Basically, I'd appreciate hearing from either those who have made the switch or those who considered it but stuck with Canon.

Thanks for your time.

[Steve Ashton]

Ben, I am having the same problems as you and looking at a move to Nikon. Whilst wildlife is my hobby I do make my entire living from other types of photography. I just don't trust my cameras any more. At present using 1DmkIII and a loan 1DSIII both are not good.

The IDs file size is to large and the camera is to slow but focus is better....its a real problem

[Gyorgy Szimuly]

As a bird photographer my main concern is the lack of suitable body at NIKON.
The superb noise handling is nice with NIKON but the only 12 Mpix and FF body somehow doesn't meet my requirements.
I definitely need a crop factor body which D3X will most probably be. For me the switching is obvious but the timing is uncertain.
Szimi

[Maxis Gamez]

Nikon didn't have anything close to Canon's pro cameras for a while. Nikon got criticized and many switch to Canon.

Canon made an error with a body (Mark III) and people are switching to Nikon. 1Ds Mark III works just fine, if not ask Artie. :)

At the end is a personal decision.

[John Harper]

Ben

I held off on the purchase on the MKIII because of the focus issues. Mine is a fixed one and running 1.13 firmware, and i have found it pretty good. On the focusing front you can always calibrate yur individual lenses wit the micro adjustment command to see if that helps.

I would definitely hold off on ditching it completely until you have had the fix done and there are rumors of another one coming that may solve all of the alleged problems. I would hang on and wait a while rather than take the hit that swapping to Nikon would involve.

Living in the UK, as you do, the high ISO performance was my main reason for getting one, and i have been very pleased with the results i have had from it.

John

[Art Peslak]

I made the switch because of the problems I had with the Mark III. Like you I was starting not to enjoy my photography. Photography is primarily a hobby for me but I do market my images on a limited basis given my other time constraints.

I have had 3 Mark III bodies and was not satisfied with any of them. I had an original Mark III that worked okay for a while but I found to be completely useless trying to photograph warblers during fall migration. I couldn't focus on the little birds fast enough before they would jump. I had my first blue dot Mark III for 3 days and sent it back to the dealer because it wouldn't focus on anything. My second blue dot was better but I still had a lot of out of focus images on a trip to Bosque in November.

It appears to me that the "fix" by Canon is not a real fix. It just damps out visible focus oscillations in the view finder during use in servo but in reality the focus oscillations that were readily apparent before the fix are still there. The last straw for me was in January. I went out after work to look at a nest of some local bald eagles and one flew very slowly over my head several times in bright light. I got home and every other image was out of focus even though it looked like it locked in the view finder.

I bought the D3 and the 200-400. Although its winter and haven't shot too much, I am very happy with the early results. I don't put much stock in the crop factor helping you get better reach with your lenses. Magnification is still magnification and you can't change the physics of that by what is behind the lens. I like shooting with full frame for better depth of field control.

I have recovered a good portion of the dollars in my Canon lenses although I have lost some dollars on the resale of my two Mark III's because of the focus issues.

[Javier Martin]

I am also thinking of switching due to the apparent lack of reliability of the Mark III (I never had the courage to buy one due to its bad press). My main worry is leaving the fantastic Canons 500mm f4 IS and 300mm f2.8 IS behind and getting the 200-400 f4 (because I will not be able to afford the 500mm f4 VR for a long time). I love the smooth bokeh that the Canon 500mm produces and I am not sure the 200-400mm would come close. I also wonder if the 200--400mm plus D3 or D300 would be as good as the 500mm + 1DII for flight and action shots. I know it is early days but it seems to me that the vast majority of such images seen in Internet forums are still produced with Canon kit. This is really a difficult decision.

[Ben Page]

Thanks for your thoughts guys, I appreciate hearing your opinions. I'm certainly not going to rush into anything and am 50/50 split about whether to stay or go. I think I'll spend a little more time trying some slightly different techniques to see if I can improve my hit rate before deciding.

[Scott Schupbach]

Ben, I've also considered the switch to Nikon.I'm just not sure I want to go thru selling my Canon kit and trying to locate a comparable Nikon Kit.I just sold my 300/2.8 and I may buy a Nikon D300 and 70-200VR and use it along side the Canon kit.I shot with Nikon film bodies up to the F5 and switched to Canon in 2003 when I went Digital.I did not have any long glass so the switch then was not as dificult.

I've been happy with the Marklln's along with the 400/2.8IS and 70-200/2.8IS,and several more L lenses.but really wanted to upgrade at least one of the Marklln's to the Marklll for the better ISO capability.After reading of so many unhappy users,I think I will skip the Marklll and wait it out to see how Canon resolves this.

Scott

[Fabs Forns]

I switched 3 or 4 month ago, and I am a very happy camper. Use both the D300 and D3, the last one being my favorite.
The Bokeh of the 200-400/4 is as good if not better than the 500/4 and now that I'm used to a zoom, not sure I'd fell happy with a fixed lens.
Having said that, it's a very personal decision.

[Jim Neiger]

IMO, switching from one to the other after investing lots of money is not a good idea. Both have nice glass, and bodies change every other year or so. If your 1D3 is not working well after the fix, I would send it in until it does or they refund your money. I would not accept getting stuck with a 5k camera that doesn't work properly. My 1D3 is working fine with no problems. It worked before and after the fix was applied. If you do decide to switch, I would get the fix first. I think without the fix it may be tough to sell. BTW: I have used both sytems with a variety of bodies and lenses. I have not tried a D3 yet though.

[James Prudente]

I switched from Nikon to Canon a while back because I was tired of waiting for Nikon to produce long lenses with VR. The only lens I miss is the 200-400. It is versatile and produces excellent images. Sure Canon has had problems with the Mark III and I have avoided that by staying with the 40 D and Mark IIN. In my mind digital bodies are virtually disposable as they are replaced by the manufacturers about every 18 - 24 months anyway. Canon will get the Mark III issue resolved one way or another. Both Nikon and Canon produce fine equipment on the whole and the choice is personal. A lot of folks on this and other forums have and will continue to produce beautiful images with both systems. In two years or less we will be seeing the D 4,5 or what ever from Nikon and the Mark IV, V etc. from Canon and we will all be excited to get our hands on the latest and greatest or bemoaning the latest glitch because today's method of quality control is to put the item into the hands of the consumer and see how many units get reported back with a problem.

Cheers,

Jim

[Gary "Jake" Jacobson]

I thought I would share the latest update from Canon. This sounds like the mother of all fixes. Here is a copy of the latest information posted on Rob Galbraith Photography:

February 3, 2008: Canon USA informing VIPs of new EOS-1D Mark III AF fix

Starting on February 1, 2008, Canon USA began informing key photographers and key organizations using the EOS-1D Mark III that engineers at Canon in Japan have developed a new fix for the camera's autofocus, a fix that's in addition to the change in the sub-mirror mechanism and firmware updates introduced in 2007.

In closed door meetings at the PMA 2008 trade show in Las Vegas, at Super Bowl XLII in Phoenix, Arizona and on the phone, by our count it's a minimum of four different professional market reps that have revealed to photographers or managers at seven different sites using the EOS-1D Mark III that a new fix is in the works. In other words, Canon USA reps have been directed by their superiors to begin contacting VIP customers, and to tell those customers that there's good news pending on the EOS-1D Mark III autofocus front.

Details are scant right now. Here's some of what's being said by Canon USA reps:
Canon's autofocus engineers have determined the root cause of the EOS-1D Mark III's warm/sunny autofocus problems. They now know precisely what's wrong, and can completely correct it with the new autofocus solution. The phrase "root cause" or "underlying root cause" seems to be common to most or all of the briefings, suggesting the upcoming solution is meant to go well beyond the improvements introduced with the sub-mirror repair and the algorithm changes rolled into firmware v1.1.3.
Some are being told that the new fix is comprised of both a hardware change and new firmware, others are being told that it's not known yet at Canon USA whether the fix is comprised of hardware, firmware or both. This apparent discrepancy in what reps are saying is probably indicative of how new this information is to them, and how little information they themselves have been given so far by higher ups in the Canon organization. Canon USA reps aren't sharing any other specifics about the nature of the new fix.
VIP customers are not being told when the new fix will come available, or when Canon in the U.S. and elsewhere will begin broadcasting this news more widely, though some have been told that a public announcement will be made.Historically, whispers like this from reps are followed fairly closely by an official release of information, since whispers have a way of spreading like wildfire among pro shooters. Particularly when large numbers of them congregate at events like this weekend's Super Bowl. It therefore seems likely that a Canon website posting or press announcement will come sooner rather than later, and that the announcement is likely to contain a bit more about the what and the when of Canon's newest effort to improve EOS-1D Mark III autofocus. The level of detail in any Canon announcement will probably be driven by how far out in the future the new fix's availability is.
That's all we know so far.



Obviously, you are disappointed that Canon released a product that had some major flaws. I would give them a chance to apply all of the necessary fixes before you ditch all of your gear and lose money on the transaction. Get the fixes from Canon...try them out and if you are not happy, then maybe it is time to consider a switch.

Best of luck!

[Art Peslak]

I thought I would share the latest update from Canon. This sounds like the mother of all fixes. Here is a copy of the latest information posted on Rob Galbraith Photography:

February 3, 2008: Canon USA informing VIPs of new EOS-1D Mark III AF fix

Starting on February 1, 2008, Canon USA began informing key photographers and key organizations using the EOS-1D Mark III that engineers at Canon in Japan have developed a new fix for the camera's autofocus, a fix that's in addition to the change in the sub-mirror mechanism and firmware updates introduced in 2007.

In closed door meetings at the PMA 2008 trade show in Las Vegas, at Super Bowl XLII in Phoenix, Arizona and on the phone, by our count it's a minimum of four different professional market reps that have revealed to photographers or managers at seven different sites using the EOS-1D Mark III that a new fix is in the works. In other words, Canon USA reps have been directed by their superiors to begin contacting VIP customers, and to tell those customers that there's good news pending on the EOS-1D Mark III autofocus front.



I tried to not make personal comments about my view of this issue and Canon but this leak to "VIP Photographers" some 10 days ago with no formal announcement from Canon shows Canon's utter arrogance toward its customers who plunked down good money on these cameras. I bought my blue dot after they announced the cameras were fixed. Now they make some secret announcement that the first fix is not really the fix and something better is coming. The announcement should have been made to everyone not behind closed doors at PMA. Its this type of arrogance toward customers that has gotten many corporations into trouble.

I personally have no confidence that Canon has found the root cause of the problem and knows how to fix it.

[Alfred Forns]

I have changed to Nikon last September due to the MK3

Consider these facts No word that there was anything wrong for a long time, just firmware fixes, Sub-mirror assembly fix did not do anything Now they have found another fix which will be in place by April (at the earliest) Mean time if you have a Mk3 from the begiining is going to be close to a year and don't have a working MK3

At Bosque a friend a good photographer told me his was fine I said ok Then he asked how can you tell if its fine I took the camera and shot some cranes going left to right on the tripod and keeping the center point on the bird Did same with Nikon D200 The Canon had some in focus some out of focus up and down the sequence All Nikon were sharp So much for one good camera

Jim you say your camera has always been fine Do you remember your post when the camera was one week old and was not focusing at all? I do !!!! Also I think you have made some compensations for making the camera work I also did when I had it

Selling all your Canon gear is not as bad as you might think The long glass can be sold for very close to new I sold both 500 and 600 The other just sent to the Equipment Lady (Laurie Excelll) and did very well

Regarding the Nikon The AF in both D300 and D3 works as advertized Amazing .... but that is not the main reason for going dark


D3 has the cleanest ISO of any camera by far
Histogram is actually usable in bright conditions
Ergonomics much better
Ten exposure in camera blending
Capture NX
Being able to use the 200-400 VR a shining jewel
Superior flash system
better stop here

Sorry for the rant but when this topic comes up bad memories floods my brain !!!

From I have been told the new 1DsMK3 does perform better than the MK3 AF are close but not the same

If you keep your Canon best of luck I'm sure it will be fixed at some point !!!

[Ben Page]

Apologies for opening up old wounds, certainly wasn't my intention. Thanks to all for your opinions and suggestions.

I think I'm at the point that my heart wants to switch but my head says wait and see what Canon come up with. I'm hoping it's not a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side". I wouldn't expect Nikon to make me a better photographer or anything, but it might help make it more fun!

And the thought of that 200-400mm is very tempting!

Hey ho, a weekends photography should help make up my mind!

[Blake Shadle]

No old wounds here, I've been shooting Nikon since before it was cool ;) I don't own a D300 (will soon, but don't now), and Al was kind enough to let me run around with the D300 and the 70-200VR + 1.4xTC all morning out at Shark Valley... I had to make myself give it back so I get used to using the D200 again!! The focus is incredible. The 3D Dynamic point is unbelievable. You literally won't believe it.

If you can, just spend a day in the field with a friend who owns some of the latest Nikon gear. Take it for a spin.

[Gyorgy Szimuly]

Apologies for opening up old wounds, certainly wasn't my intention. Thanks to all for your opinions and suggestions.

I think I'm at the point that my heart wants to switch but my head says wait and see what Canon come up with. I'm hoping it's not a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side". I wouldn't expect Nikon to make me a better photographer or anything, but it might help make it more fun!

And the thought of that 200-400mm is very tempting!

Hey ho, a weekends photography should help make up my mind!

Don't worry by bringing this topic up in another thread. I love it. Time is passing by and opinion can change by time. :)
My idea is also foggy:
to keep my 600 from Canon and consider to buy 1Ds MkIII and I buy D3 from Nikon with 200-400 VR at the same time.
Another option is to sell everything from Canon and switch completely to Nikon which means 600 VR and 200-400 and D3 so far.

Szimi

[Gary "Jake" Jacobson]

I was considering purchasing the 1D Mark III, but was very reluctant with all of the news of focus problems. I really don't care to invest $4500 into a camera body that has focusing issues. After all, that is why I would spend the big bucks...to improve focus speed. I'll watch the debate as well as the fixes. Right now, I have too much invested into Canon, but we'll see what happens. I think Canon really blew this one. If they want to regain the trust of the customers who purchased Canon EOS 1D Mark III cameras, they should handle it like a recall and send them all new cameras versus making them ship their cameras in for repairs. Granted I didn't purchase one of these cameras, but it did leave me with a major lack of trust with the Canon brand.

[Alfred Forns]

Szimi when you factor in the 600 VR the choice becomes a little tougher Just got mine a couple of weeks ago

One of the reasons that I see for not having two systems is spares when traveling Would hate to go on a trip with two bodies .... one Canon one Nikon !!!

[Gyorgy Szimuly]

Szimi when you factor in the 600 VR the choice becomes a little tougher Just got mine a couple of weeks ago

One of the reasons that I see for not having two systems is spares when traveling Would hate to go on a trip with two bodies .... one Canon one Nikon !!!

I am sure I would love the 600VR and the traveling issue is a good point except having a spare body is not a bad thing :D
I really don't know what to do as I am not 100% satisfied with my MkIIN. :eek: Never been more confused than now.
Szimi

[Ben Page]

Well, I've bought Artie's 1d mark 3 user guide and I'm going to study that to make sure I'm getting the best out of my camera. I'm going to give Canon a chance to fix it and if I'm still not satisfied then I'll look at Nikon some more (I'm still hankering for that fab 200-400mm).

I thank you all for your contributions, they have all really helped me, and for now I will try and make what I've got work, this week at least ;)

[Gyorgy Szimuly]

One of the wisdom we are told all the time is learn from others' mistake (or bad experiences). So I try to skip those headaches. :)
Szimi

[Robert O'Toole]

One of the wisdom we are told all the time is learn from others' mistake (or bad experiences). So I try to skip those headaches. :)
Szimi

I agree with you Szimi.

If you are thinking about switching to Nikon from Canon think about this. Canon has forced me to buy into the Nikon system after owning and shooting every Canon Body since the D30 for the past 7 years professionally. This has to tell you something. Hello.


Robert

[Judd Patterson]

I believe that the pendulum of camera brand preference will continue to swing back and forth between Nikon and Canon in the years to come. Throughout it all I hope to be out in the field creating photographs. Both brands are completely capable of great photographs. There is nothing wrong with going for the best tools available, but it's the time, effort, and skill that ultimately make the most difference...

[JH Tugs]

Last year if I recall correctly, Artie sent out a hilarious bulletin announcing his defection to Nikon (an April Fool, of course). If he sends out the same story again this year, I would have to study the other articles in the bulletin very hard to be sure if that one was the April Fool or not.

I'm not a pro, and I'm a Canon user, as is my father. I like Canon - it feels safe. Lately though I think a couple of things have really dented my confidence in Canon. The first of all are Canon's own issues with focus etc - I don't own a MkIII but it doesn't bode terribly well for the flagship camera to have issues like this, and it is doing a lot of damage to their reputation. The second is the Nikon D3 which just seems superb and for high ISO especially seemed to blow the Canons out of the water. The only saving grace for me is that I can afford to put off any decision for a while and see if the wind changes again. I wouldn't want to go through losing the lenses I know and buying new ones for Nikon, but if my livelihood depended on it I think I'd make the jump.

[Ben Page]

I thought I'd post a quick update in case anyone’s interested.

Had a very enjoyable weekend tinkering with my mark 3 and (shock horror) making some images! Having digested Artie's user guide I spent some time calibrating a couple of my lenses and went out to do some macro work on the frosty vegetation followed by some BIF at my local zoo.

Interestingly, whilst calibrating the lenses (specifically the 300mm f/2.8) the focus issue presented itself! However this didn't stop me calibrating the lens, and remember this body hasn’t been “fixed” by Canon yet.

I also had a go at using Jim Neiger's bump focus technique (explained here http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1949) . Thanks for sharing this Jim, it really helped me this weekend :)

Anyhoo, the long and the short of it is I’ll be sticking with what I’ve got for now and just concentrate on improving my technique and enjoying my hobby (and making sure Canon fix the camera)!

Thanks again to all who gave their opinions.

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Ben Excellent conclusion on your part and agree 100%

Regarding the fix I'm confident it will be done Hope soon Also one thing to note on the Mk3 is image quality It is as good as anything else out there with decent ISO performance

Regarding the bump focusing it was a good (Great) idea when the old 10D was around Jim was getting sharp flight images when just about everybody else was having trouble Also at that time if you were using a Pro body 1D you would not have to do anything However contemplating using that technique today would be one step (maybe several) below to going back to film.