Hand Holding 300mm and up [Archive] - BirdPhotographers.net

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Jay Gould

08-10-2009, 04:02 AM

HELP!!

I am right handed; therefore the camera is in my right hand and the lens is in my left hand.

I am having trouble finding a comfortable way to HH the lens and not accidentally turn the focus ring.

I have weakness in both thumbs from surgery.

I am trying to practice prior to spending a few days with Jim Neiger next month.

Those of you that regularly HH their 300s and larger, especially Canon 300 f/2.8s, any suggestions including images would be greatly appreciated.

PS to moderators: if this belongs in the Gear Section, kindly move it!

Ken Watkins

08-10-2009, 05:03 AM

Jay,

I do not do this myself but why not try holding the lens by the tripod mount?

Nancy A Elwood

08-10-2009, 06:39 AM

Jay, to be honest, I would not spend that much time trying to HH my 500. I have developed a good technique with my tripod and wimberley mount. It would make the day very long and tiring. I have HH my 500 for the occassional shot, but really would not find it good for all day. I can have my tripod set up in just a minute and it is so much more comfortable. Possible the 300 VR would work out being HH, but anything longer or without VR not to me at least.

Cheers
Nancy

Brian Zwiebel

08-10-2009, 07:43 AM

Jay,

I tuck my left bicep in and actually over my left "pec". Soon enough I may be able to rest my elbow on my gut, but not yet! Anyway, this position leaves my left palm face up just about chin level. I rest the lens on my palm without really gripping the lens at all. Yes, the lens focus ring (500 f/4) is right where my hand should go. I almost always shoot in AI Servo mode so if I happen to accidentaly move the focus ring it is not that big a deal. It is possible to avoid the focus ring all together by placing the lens on the heal of your hand then bridging the focus ring by placing your finger tips on the lens on the far side of the focus ring.

The 1dmk3 has a custom function 3.1 that can be set to turn off the manual focus ring on USM lenses. Unfortunately this cfn appears to not work on the IS USM lenses.

Good Shooting!

BZ

Steve Martin

08-10-2009, 10:31 AM

Jay,
Have you taken a look at the Bushhawk? Folks regularly use this with lenses up to 500mm. Provides great stability in a light weight setup.

Fabs Forns

08-10-2009, 11:10 AM

May I ask you what the purpose is for hand-holding the 500?
I can the 300/2.8, but the bigger gun belongs in a tripod.
Take from one who spent two years hand holding Canon's 500/4, until I realized how much I was missing in composition, framing and in low light because of hand-holding.
Not to mention the damage to your back and neck.

Doug Brown

08-10-2009, 11:29 AM

I am a firm believer in hand holding for flight photography. But I also agree with Fabs when it comes to more static subjects and when the light gets low. In Costa Rica I often use a tripod.

Fabs Forns

08-10-2009, 11:33 AM

I will add that you accidentally move the focus ring because the manufacturer didn't mean you to have your hand there :)

Larry Frogge

08-10-2009, 01:59 PM

Try placing you left hand on your right shoulder and lay the lens across you arm. With practice you can hold it very steady for short lengths of time.
Larry <><

Jim Neiger

08-10-2009, 04:43 PM

Jay,

I responded to the email you sent me with this question. Feel free to post my response in here if you like.

Jack Faller

08-10-2009, 05:34 PM

I received instructions from Jim during several consecutive days on his boat and have found hand holding a 500 a really practical way to do flight photography. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it if you have a realistic option of using a tripod. Nevertheless, it is certainly more convenient than dragging around a tripod as well as the camera & lens if you have to walk a reasonable distance. I think it is also easier to make images of birds in flight since you don't have to revolve around the tripod and can just point the lens and camera at the bird. You also can react quicker to a bird coming from a direction you hadn't anticipated.

It takes a significant amount of practice to be able to hold the focus point on the subject, but you can learn how if you keep at it. It is best to practice on seagulls or something where you have a lot of opportunities. Jim will show you the technique in detail, but I use my left hand (palm up) under the foot that normally attaches to the tripod. If you hold it this way, the focus ring won't get in the way. This also raises the lens a bit and allows your elbow to rest against your chest to better support the weight and steady the lens.

Ultimately it is best to use manual settings for the exposure, but you may want to use automatic selection of the exposure time to start with. With the 300 you may find that the largest aperture settings may not work too well since it will be difficult to get a whole bird in focus owing to the depth of field. I usually find that f5.6 is best for depth of field and still getting a fast enough shutter speed. In any event, I've found hand holding even larger lenses than the 300 a really great technique and I use it often. I suppose it can be done with a 600, but I think a 500 is about the limit in weight that someone with average strength can deal with.

Dave Mills

08-10-2009, 06:10 PM

Jim Neiger

08-10-2009, 07:37 PM

I've observed a few people hand holding a 500mm but IMO if the situation allows a tripod I would go no other way. The lense is heavy and awkward and one must take the time and practice to develope a skill in order to use it in that fashion. I would tire far more quickly shooting that way than with a tripod. For most people(not all) the negatives out weigh the positives...

In my experience, if you develop the skills required and use proper techniques, it's the other way around. The positives outweigh the negatives and you become much more productive. With enough skill and experience fatigue becomes a non factor. This is particularly true when shooting action.

Axel Hildebrandt

08-10-2009, 07:50 PM

In my experience, if you develop the skills required and use proper techniques, it's the other way around. The positives outweigh the negatives and you become much more productive. With enough skill and experience fatigue becomes a non factor. This is particularly true when shooting action.

I agree with Jim, I almost always handhold the 500 and can quickly adjust to changes or change the composition. Of course there are many situations when using a tripod can be very helpful such as low light. This point is moot if someone has back or other issues that make it difficult or impossible to handhold.

YMMV :)

Desmond Chan

08-10-2009, 08:47 PM

but I use my left hand (palm up) under the foot that normally attaches to the tripod. If you hold it this way, the focus ring won't get in the way.

Not Canon but that's also how I hand-hold my Nikon 200-400, i.e., lens foot on palm. This way, I can zoom in and out using my fingers to turn the zooming ring.

Don't know if there're any secret techniques out there to hand-hold heavy tele, but I think the bottomline is still you have to have certain amount of strength to do it, to hold the lens for time. If you don't have it, may be it's time to build up some muscles (delt and bicep):). Still, if you keep shooting handheld, you will get stronger anyhow.

Alfred Forns

08-10-2009, 10:24 PM

Hi Axel Someone should take a picture of you hand holding the 500 I was amazed and the way you do it the lens looks rock solid and steady .... don't think everyone can do it :) .. need to be flexible !!!!

Dave Mills

08-10-2009, 11:24 PM

Just curious that if this was a better technique why do the vast majority of photographers use a tripod when handling a 500mm and up? In my experience, being around many nature photogs I've seen very few handhold.

Brian Zwiebel

08-11-2009, 06:51 AM

There is no right or wrong answer here folks, other than to use what works best for you in a given situation. The technique I describe above is what I use when hand holding is the better option for me. I much prefer to shoot off a tripod but for fast action flight photography I will hand hold the 500mm with very good results. If the 1.4x TC is needed on the 500mm I will opt for the tripod almost every time. I do see what appears to be a trend with a loss of sharpness on images posted over in avian taken while hand holding the 500mm + 1.4x TC.

The decision of tripod vs hand held is made in the field while shooting most of the time, or ahead of time when I am well aware of the shooting situation of a particular location. I switch to HH at the time when lost images due to not getting the bird in the frame is greater than lost images due softness from camera shake. This often equates to birds in flight. Some here know that I will at times hand hold the 500mm with a 25mm tube and top mounted flash for warblers at point blank range at Magee Marsh. I choose to work this way on just one section of boardwalk where the birds are in heavy cover, very close to the boardwalk. I am rarely even able to get pointed at the bird when using a tripod here. Hand holding gives me the mobility to move with the bird and quickly position myself as the best openings in the vegetation. I've posted an example here:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43212

Of course, the main reason I shoot HH is to impress the ladies!! ;)

Good Shooting, HH or otherwise!

BZ

Thomas Herou

08-11-2009, 07:43 AM

I love to handhold,especially macro,but with the heavier lenses I always use a monopod
and finds it a very good compromise.I'm quite adgile with this solution and I save my back.

Dave Mills

08-11-2009, 08:50 AM

I definately see the flexibility factor in HH. I'm just happy to get the big lense on the tripod and get the weight off me. :-)

Jim Neiger

08-11-2009, 09:43 AM

I think the approach of most bird photographers is to use a tripod for big lenses whenever they can and only hand hold when they need to to get the images they want. This usualy occurs when photgraphing fast paced action, such as bif.

My approach is has been the opposite. I only use the tripod when I need it to make the desired images and I hand hold the rest of the time. I do this so that I can almost always remain ready for action. It is a completely different approach and mind set.

My experience with this has led me to believe that my approach is much more productive and has also led me to find ways to overcome the traditional handicaps of using hand held technique with large lenses. Without this approach and mind set I would have not been able to develop my skills to the point where the benefits consistantly outweigh those of the other approach. I guess it requires a commitment to get there, but when you do the advantages become obvious, IMO.

There are four skills that I teach in my workshops that I believe will lead to the desired result if developed to an adequate level. They are:

1. Initial aquisition skills - putting the subject in the viewfinder and focusing on it quickly and acurately.

2. Subject tracking - keeping focus on the subject without focusing on the bg and keeping focus during the critical moments when the best image opportunities occur.

3. Efficient shooting - only holding the camera and lens up in shooting position when actualy making the images and resting the remainder of the time. This involves much field craft where you identify patterns in wildlife behavior and use your lnowledge to anticipate behavior, etc.

4. Planning and execution - figuring out the most desireable images that you wish to make and devising a plan to make them based on using the skills you have developed and the techniques required to execute the plan.

None of these skills are easy and they require much practice and a commitment to the method.

Fabs Forns

08-11-2009, 10:44 AM

This sounds like a plan also for tripod users.

Jim Neiger

08-11-2009, 11:00 AM

This sounds like a plan also for tripod users.

I agree, but I believe that that the productivity of the hand held method greatly exceeds that of the tripod method particularly when photographing action. I've spent hundreds of hours shooting with tripod users and have proven this to myself many times over.

Rene A

08-11-2009, 12:55 PM

This sounds like a plan also for tripod users.

Fabs,

We are outnumbered here HH a 500. Mark III & 300 f2.8 IS & 1.4 is only short period:)

We should hire these strong men to help us out:)

How about you guys???

Alfred Forns

08-11-2009, 03:23 PM

I think there are some images that can only be made hand holding One of the best places that I can think is from a boat, even a monopod is not efficient.

I have seen Jim working from his neck of the woods and its probably the way to go, getting off the truck to check a site then getting back and doing another ... tripod would be inconvenient.

At most places that I shoot action can be captured using a tripod but you need practice. You have a narrow area for sun angle so its not like your are shooting from any direction unexpectedly. Personally I think you should be able to do both and will do well going out with Jim to learn the ropes. If the situation comes up you will be ready but for most you will be better off tripod mounted.

btw learning to use a tripod is not easy, lots of subtle things you need to do ..... have the tripod at the correct height, balanced perfectly and leveled !!! ... each time you set up ... while shooting I seldom see any of those !!!

Jay Gould

08-11-2009, 03:32 PM

Jay,

I responded to the email you sent me with this question. Feel free to post my response in here if you like.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style> Place the lens foot (handle) flat on the inside of the upturned left palm. Then wrap your fingers around the front of the handle. Now place your thumb and index finger on the side of the bottom part of the lens. This is for balance since the lens is somewhat top heavy. Next tuck both of your elbows in and against your chest while placing the viewfinder of your camera up to your eye. Using your elbows against your chest relieves a bit of the stress on your arms and provides stability. When you move, move your torso with elbows and camera in place so that it all moves like it was one fixed piece. This will provide smooth stable movement. I call this position the human tripod position. I will demonstrate it when you are here. The position varies somewhat from person to person depending on your body type. People with very long arms often prefer to place the lens body on the palm instead of the handle for example. Small slender people often have trouble tucking their elbows into their body while keeping eye to the viewfinder. The important thing is to find a smooth, stable, and comfortable position for you.

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJay%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm lclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style>On my 300 I leave the lens plate off because it is uncomfortable to hold. On my 500 I use the RRS replacement handle that doubles as a lens plate, but is comfortable to hold.
Now, practice, practice, practice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay Gould

08-11-2009, 03:36 PM

Jay Gould

08-11-2009, 03:39 PM

James Shadle

08-11-2009, 04:26 PM

Jay,
Can you post an image of you using / hand holding the 300mm?
James

Jay Gould

08-11-2009, 04:42 PM

Jay,
Can you post an image of you using / hand holding the 300mm?
James

Hi, for you it is 5:42pm on Tuesday; for me it is 7:42am on Wednesday. It will be posted while you are sleeping; you will awaken to my cherubic countenance holding a big stick and speaking softly. (Teddy Roosevelt)

:D

James Shadle

08-11-2009, 04:58 PM

You never know, I rarely sleep.

Mike Tracy

08-11-2009, 06:10 PM

If one isn't restricted by any physical limitations HH can surely be learned through proper technique and practice. I have shot trap and skeet for 30+ years. At any club you can see male and females, young and old alike skillfully aiming a gun for a long period of time thats similar in weight to a long tele. And a long lens doesn't have recoil !

Jay Gould

08-12-2009, 12:44 AM

Hi, here are four images combined in grid fashion in Lightroom, grabbed as a single capture by SnagIt (love that program), saved as a .jpeg and then opened in PS for sizing for the web.

Jim, regarding the lens plate and the lens handle, the handle on the 300 is so small, and looking at your left hand on the boat's wheel, that little lens handle would be lost in you mitt! ;) :D

I don't mind being the guinea pig for this discussion - I started it. Hopefully everyone participating will learn from the various Masters.

Doug, my recollection is that there was a discussion awhile back and you indicated that you moved the lens handle out of the way and suggested putting it at 10:00. Am I having a senior moment?

James, since you rarely sleep, good morning!

James Shadle

08-12-2009, 01:55 AM

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-12-2009, 02:29 AM

Ken Watkins

08-12-2009, 02:50 AM

I think the use of HH depends on the situation you are using it. Most of my shots are taken from an open safari vehicle or sometimes a boat. Whilst it may be good to use some form of support this is predominately impossible, because of space limitations(believe me I have tried almost everything the best of which is a simple bean bag). In addition there is often something going on in the opposite direction hand-holding is the only quick solution. I will grant you that you may not get as many keepers as you might with a tripod or monopod but that is the risk you take. The higher ISO's of the newer models will make HH more easy as time goes on. I only wish I had some better muscles to do it with!

Jay Gould

08-12-2009, 02:59 AM

Good Morning!
Jay,
Just for giggles, try taking the tripod collar off and holding the lens a little further out.

You can also reduce the weight even more by not using the lens hood(make sure you have good light angles).
I like to hold the lens further out and use my face / forehead to rest against the camera body.
When you move the pivot point further out, it increases the amount of torque required to move the front element, resulting a more stable camera/lens combo.

On longer lenses, Jim's tech is the most comfortable and practical way to go.

Good morning, my kooky cyber friend - we should Skype this time of day! If you are a Skyper, try Jay Gould!

I had removed the collar and I kept hitting/turning the focus ring. When I just did these images, that was the first time I held the collar - actually it wasn't too bad resting the lens plate in my hand. I had tried just the collar without the plate and it was too small.

The camera body was against my face.

If you remove the hood aren't you significantly limiting lens angles because of the sun?

Thanks for taking the time. ;) :D

Jay Gould

08-12-2009, 03:03 AM

Jay have you tried mounting the 500 on a monopod and then pushing the tubes up until you have about a 1' 6" mono which you can easily hand hold with, also set up your monopod about 6' short which will allow you to rest the camera/lens between shots then simply lift it for shooting.

Hope it helps, it works for me and saves the weight of climbing with a heavy tripod.

Hi Mate, only a 300; I have to master this lens before graduating to a 500. We are going to be traveling for seven months; I sometime use the tripod - very very light carbon fiber - with only one leg extended as a mono pod.

Of course, I am not going to lift it to a "shortened" mock monopod.

Bst Rgrds.

Kiran Khanzode

08-12-2009, 08:25 PM

Jay,
Finally, I feel good about being a leftie...nah, I've always felt good !!! Makes ping pong and Tennis a bit tough for the righties...like Fereder Vs Nadal :-).

Anyway, I use the same lens that you do , the 300 f/2.8 IS, specifically bought it for the image quality, light (comparatively) weight and portability. I needed something that gave me 600mm and won't give me trouble while I fly overseas every now and then (with airlines and others folks).

I do occasionally handhold it but not beyond 30 seconds at a stretch. Let me tell you, I am 34 yr young...and lift weights 5 times a week, have 18 inch arms (well, not bigger than Dave Fletcher :-))... *EVEN THEN* it's just not doable beyond 30 secs, the burn is too much to handle. So don't feel bad about not being able to handhold this lens for a prolonged period, I would say. I do hang it around the neck in a diagonal fashion rather than as a garland when I am walking, helps reduce the feel of the weight a bit, but even then, I support the lens by holding on to the hood. Oh yes, I also use those Op-Tech straps...they do work.

I do one thing, as soon as the IS stabilizes in the VF, I take 3-4-5 shots of any 1 scene and use the best frame...then drop the lens to let the blood in my arm to circulate again...then lift it again. I don't see an occasion where I have to consistently handhold this lens for more than 30-40 seconds (unless it's a cheetah kill that I am tracking...in my dreams, of course). I usually do safari rides and beanbags come handy for prolonged periods.

Maybe try holding it under right where the hood meets the front of the lens, I do that, yea it's unconventional...but it works for me.

We have one of the best lens that canon ever made , buddy, cheers !!!

Regards,

Kiran

PS: And yes, remove the tripod collar to further lower the weight, every ounce counts.

James Shadle

08-12-2009, 09:17 PM

Finally, I feel good about being a leftie...nah, I've always felt good !!!
That's funny, I'm right eye dominate, but I use my left eye when I'm behind the camera. I guess I'm a lefty too.
Maybe try holding it under right where the hood meets the front of the lens, I do that, yea it's unconventional...but it works for me.
I agree, especially on a relatively short lens like the 300mm.

Jay,
On many USM and AF-S(Nikon)lenses, the focusing ring can be disabled. Not sure about your model.
And yes, not using a hood does cut down on the angles you can shoot at. 99.9% of the time, my back is to the sun and it is not an issue:).

Alfred Forns

08-12-2009, 09:48 PM

Marc Mol

08-12-2009, 10:04 PM

Jim Neiger

08-12-2009, 10:10 PM

Jay,

I have a home made gadget for you to try when you get here. It will assist you with hand holding and provide more flexibility to tailor it for your personal comfort. The reason I use the handle (lens foot) is so I can get enough height when combined with my arm to get support and stability from my body. Some folks with longer arms like Doug can get this stability and support while holdng the lens body directly. My arms are too short and if I try to use the lens body instead I end up with my elbows in the air instead of comfortably against my body. I would need either longer arms or a bigger chest and stomach to use the lens body effectively. I guess my point is that there are different best methods for different people based on their body type and what they are confortable with. The guy in your photos appears to have his elbows in the air instead of against his body. In the long run this would not be good for avoiding fatigue or for stable, smooth movement. Btw: the photo of me is several years old and is of me driving my old bass boat. The photographer who took the photo is James Shadle.

Jay Gould

08-13-2009, 03:37 AM

:D At the outset I have said it before and I will say it again - there is no other net that even comes close to BPN and the amazing amount of time and assistance Master Photographers give to those trying to learn how to become sub-Master Photographers. To all of you that have thus far responded to my request for assistance, THANK YOU!

Hi Kiran -

I miss the expression "buddy"! ;)

Not that there is anything "less" about the similar term in Australia - "Mate". Where in California are you located?

18" arms - no wonder your avatar is a tiger! :eek:

Interesting that you refer to the Op-Tech straps, my instructors here have both purchased the NatureScapes Trekking Safari Strapand I was about to ask whether anyone was using that strap to carry their long lenses as an aid when you have two cameras, one with a long lens and one with a short lens.

During my month in Antarctica when we go ashore I am planning on having two bodies ready to go each with its own lens.

I have purchased the ThinkTank Holster 40 which will hold the 5D2/battery grip/L-bracket and my 70-200 f/4 with the hood in the open position. I walked around all day today at a fair simply carrying the setup on my belt to see whether it would bother me - no problem; that works! I will use the 5D2 with either the 70-200 or the 16-35.

The second body - come on Canon Gods - is going to be a 1D4 which will have the 300. If we are working "close" then the 300 would be in my backpack.

I was thinking that I could hang the 1D4/300 on the Safari Strap when I wanted to use the other body which I am carrying in the holster.

:D :D

Jay Gould

08-13-2009, 03:54 AM

Jay,
On many USM and AF-S(Nikon)lenses, the focusing ring can be disabled. Not sure about your model.

Really?!

My reaction is not about whether the lens focusing ring can be disabled. As often as Artie and other have talked about manual focus I am simply surprised at the suggestion of disabling the ring.

In any case I have just reviewed the manual and I did not see anything about being able to disable the ring. Interestingly, the manual makes a comment about the fact that the focus ring focus all of the time regardless of the mode chosen - full time manual focus!

James, thanks for taking the time - see ya next month.

Jay Gould

08-13-2009, 03:55 AM

Hi Jay

I like turning the foot upside down if attached and moving my hand further forward on the lens, seem more stable. It boils down to what works for you and do check it out. Shoot at a target and see results !!!

btw the times I have used a 300 for extended periods of time my arms got tired and image quality went downhill !!!

Hi Al, maybe it was you and not Doug that suggested turning the foot upside down!

If you move your hand further forward what do you do about the focus ring? Are you putting your hand in front of the focus ring?

:D

Jay Gould

08-13-2009, 04:01 AM

Jay,

I have a home made gadget for you to try when you get here. It will assist you with hand holding and provide more flexibility to tailor it for your personal comfort.

Mr HH, why am I not surprised ;) that you have an invention to possibly answer the problem?!!

The reason I use the handle (lens foot) is so I can get enough height when combined with my arm to get support and stability from my body. Some folks with longer arms like Doug can get this stability and support while holdng the lens body directly. My arms are too short and if I try to use the lens body instead I end up with my elbows in the air instead of comfortably against my body. I would need either longer arms or a bigger chest and stomach to use the lens body effectively. I guess my point is that there are different best methods for different people based on their body type and what they are confortable with.

I was a bit more comfortable holding the foot with the lens plate as it gave me better control.

The guy in your photos appears to have his elbows in the air instead of against his body.

THAT "GUY IN THE PHOTO" IS ME! :eek: ;) :D

MY LEFT ARM WAS AGAINST MY BODY; MY RIGHT ARM TENDS TO MOVE AWAY FROM MY BODY.

In the long run this would not be good for avoiding fatigue or for stable, smooth movement. Btw: the photo of me is several years old and is of me driving my old bass boat. The photographer who took the photo is James Shadle.

So, if that is not the YOU of TODAY, are you telling us mere mortals that you are older and wiser and grayer and you have a long beard like father time? :D

Looking forward to meeting the real YOU.

Brian Zwiebel

08-13-2009, 06:53 AM

Jay,
On many USM and AF-S(Nikon)lenses, the focusing ring can be disabled. Not sure about your model.

Jay, with the MK3 the manual focus ring can be disabled on USM lenses with custom function 3.1. Unfortunately it appears to NOT work on IS versions of USM lenses.

BZ

Jim Neiger

08-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Jay,

I didn't think it was you because in the photo you appear to have hair farther forward on your head than you do in your avatar photo. Since the photos above are recent I figured it must be someone else.

I look pretty much the same as in the photo. I was trying to tell you that it was my old boat and that I have a much nicer boat now. I also wanted to credt Shadle with the photograph. We were going about 40 MPH when he made the photo.

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-13-2009, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by Jay Gould, very very light carbon fiber - with only one leg extended as a mono pod.

I like the lateral thinking they Jay:)

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-15-2009, 08:47 AM

The professional opinion Jay is we would like to see your face in the 300 f/2.8 photos and if they match up to you avatar our profound apologies are proffered and we look forward to some spectacular photographic offerings in the future from you.
<o></o>
You are in line for some great journeys and hopefully this forum will benefit from your marvelous contributions in the coming months.

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-15-2009, 09:12 AM

Jay, I am still quietly awaiting some images from your wonderful gear, are they likely to be posted in the near future?

The photos of you with your 300 f/2.8 do not match up with your avatar, measurements of shoulder width and hair line are suspect and no full facial shots make my ex police mind weary?

Am I simply being a fraction paranoid?

I hope so as these photos are going to some very qualified forensic chaps and Jay I do hope I am wrong and look forward to your Antarctic sequences.

Jay Gould

08-15-2009, 04:28 PM

You are in line for some great journeys and hopefully this forum will benefit from your marvelous contributions in the coming months.

There is a wonderful expression in many many languages:

FROM YOUR MOUTH TO GOD'S EAR! :D

Michael Lloyd

08-15-2009, 06:55 PM

I routinely hand hold my 600 f4 BUT I prefer to use a tripod. Brian outlined a technique similar to what I use when I hand hold any long glass. It takes practice to be able to hand hold long glass but its handy to be able to do so. I chose to shoot from a tripod and Wimberly at Bosque last year for most of my shots but sometimes (like straight up and down low) it's nice to have the flexibility of being able to hand hold.

When I shoot night high school football I use a 300 f2.8L IS on a EOS1DsMKII (or MKIII depending on the field lighting) and a 70-200mm f2.8L IS attached to a 1DMKIII. Sometimes the 300 is mounted to a Gitzo carbon fiber monopod and as the action gets close I let it fall into the crook of my arm and swing the 70 -200 up (gotta be quick :D ). Sometimes I forget the monopod in the truck because I am running late so I have to handhold the 300 but compared to the 600 that's not much of a task. One or the other is in my hands at all times. What I'm not holding is hanging from the strap.

Jay Gould

08-15-2009, 10:32 PM

One or the other is in my hands at all times. What I'm not holding is hanging from the strap.

Michael, for the big glass on a strap, are you using a standard camera strap of one of the shoulder harness types? Thanks for the info.

Michael Lloyd

08-15-2009, 10:42 PM

I've had the straps for so long Jay that I don't remember the brand. They are padded and have non-slip "bumps" on it. They also have quick release clips. They aren't shoulder harnesses.

William Malacarne

08-15-2009, 11:24 PM

I've had the straps for so long Jay that I don't remember the brand. They are padded and have non-slip "bumps" on it. They also have quick release clips. They aren't shoulder harnesses.

It may have been one of these.

http://upstrap-pro.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST

Bill

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-16-2009, 07:03 AM

FROM YOUR MOUTH TO GOD'S EAR! It is amazing how much Yiddish one picks up when on UN duties in the Golan Heights.

"פֿון דײַן מױל אין גאָטס אױערן

Michael Lloyd

08-16-2009, 09:54 AM

It may have been one of these.

http://upstrap-pro.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PLST

Bill

No but that's a heck of a strap!

Jay Gould

08-16-2009, 03:57 PM

It is amazing how much Yiddish one picks up when on UN duties in the Golan Heights.

"פֿון דײַן מױל אין גאָטס אױערן

I'll bet you have a few stories to tell - now I have a reason to visit Melbourne with Jackie! I will jingle your chain when I am going to be in the area!!

:D :D

Christopher C.M. Cooke

08-17-2009, 06:30 AM

I'll bet you have a few stories to tell - now I have a reason to visit Melbourne with Jackie! I will jingle your chain when I am going to be in the area!!

:D :D  <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CChris%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoh tml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style> You will be more than welcome Jay and Jackie and my wife Susan and I will personally take you to some great photographic sites which will give your great lenses some taxing duties.

Not joking Jay, I will welcome you. Our wetlands are suburban. Our coastal sites interesting and challenging and our Ornithologist here are first class.
<o></o>
We may not be up to the “Birds as Art” standard of Artie and our great members at BPN, but we do know our birds and are gradually learning more about putting them on digital images and thanks to Artie et al we will get there in time.
<o></o>
We have the technology now we are working on the technique.

Arlon Motsch

08-24-2009, 11:35 AM

You might consider a monopod in a fanny pack drink holder. I shoot that way a lot with my 500/600mm. It gives me decent freedom to move around since the monopod base is attached to me and not rested on the ground. I keep the head pretty loose so I can swivel and move around rather easily. Not as much freedom as hand held but a decent compromise.

The monopod in the drink holder is also very easy to get out for that odd bird that goes flying straight over head. Shooting the whole rig unsupported works fine for a few shots but it gets heavy in a hurry.. (-:}

I hand hold the 500mm on occasion too. I just assume a classic rifle shooters hold with the tripod foot resting on the palm of my hand and my elbow perched on my hip. AF-S lens so I don't have any issues with the focus ring getting in the way. Better yet it to sit when ever I can and use my knees for a rest..

http://www.pbase.com/arlon/image/79805006/medium.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/arlon/image/111725631/medium.jpg

Arlon Motsch

08-24-2009, 11:39 AM

The fanny pack/drink holder also balances really well for walking about.. Much more comfortable to have the weight on my hips rather than a tripod or monopod slung over my shoulder. Probably a lot less stress on the monopod head too..

Here's my carrying position:

http://www.pbase.com/arlon/image/79805269/medium.jpg

Jay Gould

08-24-2009, 04:28 PM

Arlon, thanks for the thoughts and taking the time to make the images. I like it for use when I am in Australia. I am carrying so much gear that I hesitate to add a monopod in addition to the tripod when traveling - next month we are off on a six month adventure to South America.

Welcome to BPN; looking forward to your images and participation. Thanks again,