Aqua As Art

[Daniel Belasco]

I'm either brave or stupid for posting again!
canon 40d 1/640 sec f4 500mm @5.6 iso 400


http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=yzxjwk&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

[colincarter]

i like the shot Daniel, good composition, good colours, great reflection and great timing on catching the shot. Fast shutter speed has frozen the water, great job overall

[Jay Gould]

You are neither extra brave nor stupid for positing another image. I assume you have posted because you want to share and learn. I too want to share and learn. I think we have all learned that on a teaching/sharing site like BPN, coming on strongly by anyone defeats the purpose for the site.

Tactfully sharing the perceived negatives and positives of an image certainly fits the old adage of getting more from honey than from vinegar.

I like this image. There is no EC so I will assume that you did not apply any EC even though you had previously commented that you like to underexpose.

What I didn't like is the strong brown reflection on the RHS.

Since I am just learning PS I took the liberty to work on your image and suggest a different presentation.

I rotated a bit and cropped the right side. I used the Cloning Tool to remove the rest of the offending reflection. I am not very good; hopefully this is acceptable.

What do you think?

[David Fletcher]

Marvelous timing. No, another vote for not being stupid. Best way to learn as Jay says, is to share info and feedback. Like this and wonderful reflection too. Think the repost enhances a fine shot.

[Connie Mier]

The detail on the bird is great, love the water splash. Very sharp as well. The only thing that detracts from the action is the busy reflections in the water. Ideally, I'd like the bird facing more toward the camera but I'm sure it wasn't thinking about you at the time!

[Leo Berzins]

I like the action and the reflection but, as Connie noted, the angle of the bird is not ideal.
BG looks noisier than expected for ISO 400 with a 40D.

[Ramon M. Casares]

This one is the one that I like the best PP-wise, and the natural moment is great, The timing was perfect and DOF looks very good too. Nice species, and although I would remove the white spot in the right side of the frame BG looks very nice, the only thing I wish is that the bird was facing a bit towards you instead of away from you.
Congratulaitons.

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Lot of good, constructive suggestions have already been made.

To add to Peter's comment above this pane:

2a) By also being in a better position, that is, more to the right, you could have eliminated the flesh-colored reflection, which is rather dominant.

Don't be afraid to post for comments. Everyone is here to learn from the other members. We all do, every single day.

Thanks for sharing mate.

[Daniel Belasco]

Thanks everyone for the constructive comments. Maybe some people are actually kind on theis site.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Jay.<O:p</O:p
I agree with the circular brown sport on the right. That could be toned down or eliminated. The vertical brown streak on right needs to be there to balance the image. The brown streak, the trunk of a palm tree reflected in the water, balances out the dark green. almost black, on the left. Without this balance your eye focuses almost entirely on the water splash. The eye should be able to move gracefully around the image and not concentrating on any one point. Try the exercise on the two versions of this image above. At least for me my eye stops on Jay's version on the right and keeping moving around the image on my orginal post.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

As far as the heron facing to the right instead of looking more towards the viewer: After I've posted more images (if my life on the site lasts that long) you'll see a varriety from me e.g. some facing the photographer, some to the right, some to the left and varrious angles inbetween. One thing I've noticed on this site is the narrow focus of what makes an acceptable avian image. It seems like everyone here was taught by the same person. Everything has to be a certain way and that's it. If it's not like how you were taught, then it's wrong! If anyone steps out of the norms of these theachings--then they are crushed!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

You need diversity. People need to think for themselves and take images that please their preception of what they think is beautifu, pleasing, artful--whatever is their reasons for taking the photograph in the first and that shouldn't be IMHO to please someone else or the critiquics. Wouldn't life be boring if everyone took photographs the same way? What fun is that?

[Connie Mier]

Personally, I think it's more pleasing to have the bird facing toward the camera and if most people think that way, so be it. No one said it was wrong to do otherwise.

[Jay Gould]

One thing I've noticed on this site is the narrow focus of what makes an acceptable avian image. It seems like everyone here was taught by the same person. Everything has to be a certain way and that's it. If it's not like how you were taught, then it's wrong! If anyone steps out of the norms of these theachings--then they are crushed!<o></o>

You need diversity. People need to think for themselves and take images that please their preception of what they think is beautiful, pleasing, artful--whatever is their reasons for taking the photograph in the first and that shouldn't be IMHO to please someone else or the critiquics. Wouldn't life be boring if everyone took photographs the same way? What fun is that?

Daniel, I think IMHO you have missed one of the main reasons for BPN compared to any other site on the internet - FULL STOP!

At the outset, you are right, art is in the eye of the beholder and people should think for themselves and take images that please their own perceptions. And, if that is what you want to do, BPN will support you and assist you in achieving your perceptions.

HOWEVER, while BPN "... Ain't Just Birds" and therefore includes other subjects, when it comes to birds, BPN is about presenting birds at the highest level of professional presentations - not said very well!

The professionals on BPN are the best there are: winners of the top international competitions and published in the most important publications.

This is a site where professionals teach professionals to improve their shooting skills and presentation.

While you make like, for example, under-exposed images and HAs in a variety of poses, what BPN through its cadre of professionals is trying to teach you - if you want to achieve that level - is how to create images in camera and through post processing that have worldwide acceptance and meet the criteria applied by competitions like the BBC or publications like Audubon, National Geographic, and NANPA.

When the HA police point out that the head is as little as 1 - 2 degrees off of the ideal, especially when it is either parallel to or away from the sensor plane, there is a reason they are taking the time to do that.

If you are not interested in that level of critique, that is OK, and you can state that - I do not want to put words in your mouth.

Most of us will never attain the level of an Artie Morris, Jim Neiger, Al Forns, James Shadle, and Chris van Rooyen, to name a few and apologize in advance to those not named. Frankly, I don't think I have enough years left to absorb their level of cumulative experiences.

Again, however, we are never too old to learn. Therefore, we are here to strive to attain their levels through their teachings.

It is too bad you feel that when you present an image that you like and it is critiqued you are "crushed."

Rather than choosing to feel crushed, you could empower yourself instead to simply "get" that a strong critique of your image is all that it is - a strong critique of your image - and has nothing to do with you personally. If you got that the critique is about your image and not about you then there is no reason for you to feel "crushed".

Before you joined we all learned during a significant critique of one of the well-known professional's images. You might say it was close to being trashed; however, in fact it involved professionals offering opinions to a fellow professional how to make his image better.

You entered the site with a North Wind approach when you commented on Artie's image. One has to assume that if you take that approach when critiquing then you have a thick enough skin to accept the same approach in return. Not tit for tat; simply equally strong and pointed.

You have a lot to teach - I like your explanation why you want the palm reflection on the RHS of your image. It matters not whether I agree or disagree with that explanation.

You also have a lot to learn if you will be open to learning.

Sorry I rambled a bit; I feel very strongly about my adventure here at BPN.

My involvement has changed my life.

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Daniel,

Firstly, I am only a member here so in reality I have no vested interest whatsoever - just wish to clarify that! :)

I believe BPN is about sharing and learning in a friendly atmosphere. I seriously doubt that anyone is out to crush anybody - if they were, then i ampositive that person would be swiftly dealt with. Out of all the nature photography sites I have been a contributor of (not member) this is the only one I found that I actually learned something. I don't post on others as all people do mainly is the great shot etc type comments in generally. I am not much of a photographer to begin with but I see certain images that appeal to me more than others. Of course there are times when I will think that a person has done too much digital chainsawing or retouching and I may not like it as I personally do prefer a simpler, less congested image to illustrate a pure natural scene before me whether it's mine or someone else's image. There are certain aesthetic components to making an image successful to a viewer and once one gets deeper into their photography those become second nature. No one is here to knock anybody else and it is all about people commenting on what they see in an image, how they would process it and perhaps the original poster can take away those comments then implement them into his/her photographic vision and processing.

Sure we all see things differently and no one will ever agree on the same thing. I often see a couple of my friends debating about the most miniscule details, but so be it. They agree to disagree. What you are saying with if my life on the site lasts that long is silly IMHO. No one needs to get into arguments about what's right or what's wrong. Take away from our comments what you wish.

Your last paragraph nails it. If you like the image yourself then that is all that should matter.

Wish you a great day! :)

[Jay Gould]

Akos, well said.

Daniel, BTW, you do realize that you are posting in the - at least what I consider - the more senior location for posting avian images. You might cosider the Eager to Learn forum - that is where I and other newbies post - and the critiques and just as thorough and a bit gentler. :p :D

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Thanks for mentioning that Jay. I totally forgot about that mate. :)

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Daniel

Regarding head angle which we stress a lot around here it just makes the image better.

Look at it in a different way ... people photographs. One has a person looking slightly toward the camera and one looking away then ask one hundred persons which they like better .. not photographers .. and most will pick the one looking slightly toward the camera without even thinking about it !!! ... same applies for birds.

One other point is the beak and eye relationship. You have a better chance of having the eye and bill tip sharp with the slight turn toward the camera ... same image the other way has no chance. Sometimes the dof is so little its impossible to have the entire bill in focus but if the eye and tip are ... then it appears all else is which is not a bad thing !!!

There are no hard rules that one must adhere but only guidelines and the reason most around here follow the head angle "rule" is because it works in most instances. You will see images of birds looking away or in different directions being strong images ... but not many.

I think your image is a good one and a keeper but would have been even better with a better head angle, just my opinion.