Blue Billed Duck

[Lance Peters]

Well not a lot of time to do much at present, just finished a two week stint as a Juror - have to say the legal process sure is a interesting one ;)

D3
SIGMONSTER @ 800MM
F5.6
1/1250th
+0.3EV
800 ISO
Matrix Metering
Tripod

Cropped and sharpened.

Comments welcome

[Desmond Chan]

Hey, Lance, you may have a color cast here. Very sharp eye and great details in those feathers that are within the DOF. What's that in the background, especially the upper left hand part of the photo?

[Lance Peters]

Hey Desmond - lets see what everyone else thinks about a colour cast ;)

Why do you think it has a colour cast???

Upper left hand side of the photo is reflections in the water.

[Desmond Chan]

Why do you think it has a colour cast???

That patch of water in the lower left hand corner has a blue cast. The "white" spot in its tail has a blue cast. Should they be white? Perhaps you could confirm that? I used the eyedropper tool and moved it along the feathers (starting from the tails), I found a lot of them has a higher blue (RGB) value. Should they be like that? Was there something blue close to the duck?


Upper left hand side of the photo is reflections in the water.I thought so, too. But then the water there looks like it is on a different plane than that where the duck is. Is that possible? Probably my brain is playing with me :)

[Nick Palmieri]

Hi Lance, I like the BG and the eye looks nice. If there is a color cast there is a great discussion/tutorial on this site. It really helped me (if you haven't seen it)

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35243

[Jackie Schuknecht]

Don't see a colour cast. Nice shot Lance. Very sharp face and the water is very pretty.

[Bob Miller]

I'm not an expert on Color casts but when I first looked at the picture it did strike me as a bit too blue. Was the duck in shade?

[Lance Peters]

one way to see if there is a colour cast

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7752

[Richard Waas]

Lance, I thought the same thing. Thanks for the color cast hint. The detail and the eye is fabulous. Great job, congrats!!

PS: You spelled color wrong, hehehehe

[Ron Boisvert]

Hi Lance, There was a previous thread in which I hoped to gain a better understanding of color casts, but unfortunately there was no reply to my questions. Here's the link where I covered my concerns: http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=41288

I used the method presented by Charles Glatzer on your photo, as well as several of mine, and have come to the conclusion that it will only work properly in certain situations. If I average the values in your photo, then according to the method, there is a color cast, sort of a reddish-yellow. If you have a photo with a "normal" preponderance of a color due to the subject matter, such as one with lots of blue sky (it should have an excess of blue when averaged, yes?), or one with a very warm tone as your bird, then I believe that will skew the readings and give an incorrect result.

I'd like to repeat my request at the end of the above posting:

Can you or one of the other experienced photographers here share with us how you determine first of all that there is a color cast, and of what color, and once you do, how you proceed to correct it? At least for me, and perhaps for others as well, this would be a valuable learning experience.

Still lost in color space,

Thanks a lot,
Ron

P.S. I also believe there is a blue cast to this image, and that it is most visible along the top of the head, front of the breast, and along the back half of the bird. Add yellow using a Color Balance adjustment, and see what you think.

[Leo Berzins]

G'day Lance.

I don't know about colour casts but I do know that this isn't a Blue-billed Duck. It's a female Hardhead (and a fine image of one, I might add).

[Alfred Forns]

I had to look at this image a while and download but it does have a slight blue cast !!!!!

Best thing to do is download and go to Image>adjust>color balance Increase the yellow just a bit and the difference will be obvious. Had to see for myself.

With any image posted I'm sure a slight color correction could be made and its a personal choice. This is a matter of degree and here very slight. It would be dangerous trying to correct all casts and late in the day or early morning would come to mind !!

btw to check for casts you can look for an area that you know is neutral Ex white feathers, black beak, black pupil etc Check with the eyedropper like Desmond did and all numbers should match.

Ron the method you suggest for finding and correcting casts will work but not always, its a good tool !! One other tool is iCorrect Color Lab Its a PS plug in and works like a charm and fast !!!!

[Ron Boisvert]

Hi Alfred,

Thank you very much for responding to my questions about color casts. I googled your reference to iCorrect EditLab - here's the link for others to check it out: http://www.pictocolor.com/editlabpro.htm.

Forgetting for a minute that this may not be practical sometimes, is it correct to say that if one were to shoot with a gray card, or WhiBal for white balance calibration, that the majority of color casts could be more easily determined and corrected? Would you recommend this practice as a good technique for calibrating and reproducing colors more accurately? At least for me, at this stage of my limited expertise, fixing them after the fact is not always very easy.

As always, Alfred, thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it!

Ron

[Lance Peters]

HI - AL and desmond are indeed correct - there is a very slight blue colour cast to this image - AL'S recommendations on how to correct are spot on the money - The link I posted does indeed only work for some Images. Desmonds way of doing it - is correct.

Image was shot early morn and subject was in the shade slighty.

Glad I got you all thinking :)

[Desmond Chan]

Image was shot early morn and subject was in the shade slighty.



Did you have the camera white balance set to auto? The reason I ask is for D300, auto WB sometimes can give nasty result when the subject is in the shade of vegetation. Very difficult to correct. Don't know if D3 has the same problem (I hope not given its price :)).

[Desmond Chan]

P.S. I also believe there is a blue cast to this image, and that it is most visible along the top of the head, front of the breast, and along the back half of the bird.Those are the areas where I noticed the cast when I first looked at the photos. Afterwards, I confirmed that by checking the RGB values. I was told RGB values are independent of monitor settings and our eyes :) so that's a surefire way to know a cast is there especially if you check area that should be neutral, i.e., all three values for R, G, and B are the same.



how you proceed to correct it?

I'd find the mid-gray, white, and black, i.e., all those areas that should be neutral values and adjust their RGB values. Sometimes you have to adjust each of them separately especially when your photo was shot under light sources of different color temperatures. Just because one of them is neutral doesn't mean the other are. Still, some photos just don't have any neutral color at all, such as this:

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39014

Then I guess you have to resort to your own experiences and fix the color accordingly.

[Ron Boisvert]

Hi Desmond, thanks for staying with this thread. I've started checking the RGB values just the way you say, and I wonder if a subject is in the shade, shouldn't we expect some excess blue? Just like we wouldn't want to remove the warms tones of a sunrise or sunset, should we automatically remove naturally occuring blue in the shadows?

To me, Jackie's onion photo is a great example of a situation where one could easily have used a gray card to calibrate the color balance. Would you agree?

Regards,

[Desmond Chan]

[snip] and I wonder if a subject is in the shade, shouldn't we expect some excess blue? Just like we wouldn't want to remove the warms tones of a sunrise or sunset, should we automatically remove naturally occuring blue in the shadows? [snip]

I think the reason why we color correct is because what the camera sensor or films see is not the same as what our eyes see. I think if you do use a color-temperature measuring device to measure the colors in the shade, it will tell you they're on the cool, i.e., blue, side. However, when our eyes see them, they all look...normal. This is because of our brain "color corrects" instantly and so, when you see a white shirt lying in the shade, your brain and your experience will tell you that is a white shirt. You won't call it a bluish-white shirt even though it may actually is if you take a color-temperature reading of it. So to color correct, it seems to me, is to correct the colors so that they appear like the colors we know of. Also, color-corrected image usually looks better, or, should I say, normal :) However, in the case of sunrise and sunset, I am guessing the reason why we don't really want to color correct it fully because we know that under those circumstances, even our eyes will tell you the world appears warmer. The color cast then is so strong that we just accept it as is, in a way, I think.:) Similarly, I personally also do not color correct fully photos that are taken under warm light sources.



[snip]To me, Jackie's onion photo is a great example of a situation where one could easily have used a gray card to calibrate the color balance. Would you agree? I think a gray card will help there.

[Ron Boisvert]

Hi Desmond,

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation. This whole issue of color casts is becoming much clearer to me now. I've been a little lazy about using my gray card, and that is going to stop for the foreseeable future.

Thanks, Ron

[Gus Cobos]

Mr. Peters,
I like the composition and capture, there is a very slight color cast on your subject...very minor...the details in the feathers is superb and the head angle and sharp eye contact is dead on...good show...looking forward to your next one...:cool: