Using Audio for Photographing Birds: The Basics.

[Daniel Cadieux]

One of the best kept secrets in bird photography is the use of audio to lure subjects closer and onto attractive perches. I've toyed with this method for about two years and the results have been much better than expected. Some of my recent postings using this technique has created some interest from various members; here are the basics as well as my take on the ethics of using audio to attract our avian friends.



I use a 20 foot wire to connect an mp3 player to external speakers. Folks using longer lenses would likely wish to use 40 foot wire. I use small inexpensive "clamshell" speakers that are light and easy to carry. With the 20 foot wire I can set the speakers near a selected perch (or group of perches) and be able to change species' songs or stop the current song from my mp3 player while staying hidden in a blind. I keep the volume on the speakers at high, and only use the mp3 player's volume controls to set the volume from my position as you may need to raise the volume higher if the birds are far away or if there are other noises from high winds or from heavy vehicular traffic. After a bird approaches, I can turn the volume down to a more "natural" level without leaving the blind.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w98/dancad/tn_BlackburnianWarbler_6124-01-1.jpg

I can usually tell very quickly if a bird will cooperate. A subject that will come close is usually looking relaxed and more "curious" than distressed in it's behavior. It will gradually come closer, turning its head trying to figure out where the "song" comes from. It may fly from tree to tree but in relaxed and calculated manner, and usually comes closer each time it flies until it is right next to the speakers. Some will bee-line straight toward the speakers immediately and then leave after a few seconds while others will provide minutes of excellent opportunities. Some may change behaviour and become distressed...If and when a bird becomes distressed (see the symptoms of distressed below), it is time to stop. With birds that refuse to come near the speakers or are distressed from the get go, it is best to turn off the speakers and try another species or another location.

Distress signs include, but are not limited to: a fluttering wings or low drooping of the wings when perched (usually too far for photos); having the bill agape even when the bird is not singing; the bird continuously and nervously flying back and forth from tree to; the distress call is being used instead of regular (territorial) song. These are worst case scenarios and are usually immediately visible as soon as the audio is turned on...a bird that is stressed will usually not come close, and even if it does you will only be making photographs of obviously stressed birds. Pay close attention to each bird’s behavior; if in doubt, do not continue.

Not all individuals from the same species behave the same way toward audio. You may encounter one individual that responds well to tape in one area and then try it on another of the same species elsewhere and get an obviously distressed individual. Try the audio and judge each bird’s reaction...you will find out very soon whether or not you have a cooperative subject.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w98/dancad/tn_WarblingVireo_2772-01.jpg

You may get lucky just staying out in the open and close to a perch, but the success rate goes up dramatically when audio is used in conjunction with a blind, especially when you are using shorter lenses. I like the light "pop-up" type blinds. Some birds won't approach adequately without the use of a blind, but will readily come in when you are concealed in one. In either case the success rate is often quite low, but when the jackpot hits, it hits like no other opportunity can!

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w98/dancad/tn_VirginiaRail_0868-01-2.jpg

[Paul Lagasi]

Very well written and great advice....One more thing to add, when small birds are on the nest or feeding their young....stop using calls for a few weeks...taking them away from their duties as parents can leave young at risk....
I know lots of people who use calls, once the birds start nesting, they stop using audio...
Paul

[Tell Dickinson]

Hi, just my opinion and not trying to start an argument, but I believe using audio stops a bird from doing what it should be doing e.g. looking for food, defending its territory against real birds, looking after its young, finding a mate etc etc I just think it should not be used JUST to get a photo.

[Wayne Wood]

After logging hundreds upon hundreds of hours in the field with Daniel I can assure you that the birds and there well being are his prime concern. No shot will or has ever been worth stressing the subject. Tomorrow will always be another day. Great advice here Dan and an excellent learning tool.

[ChasMcRae]

Nice discussion of a "backroom" subject.
We all(at least a large number) do it and I have been doing it for several years. I advoid heavily birded areas and limit the use otherwise.
I am glad "we" are discussing this.
Results do vary as stated in the discussion.
Chas.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi, just my opinion and not trying to start an argument, but I believe using audio stops a bird from doing what it should be doing e.g. looking for food, defending its territory against real birds, looking after its young, finding a mate etc etc I just think it should not be used JUST to get a photo.

Hey Tell, What do you think of bilologists using calls for breeding bird censuses?

Also, there are those who would argue that playing a tape only serves to sharpen a bird's territorial defenses. And do understand that it is recommended that folks do not use auido with the same bird day after day.

[Tell Dickinson]

Hey Tell, What do you think of bilologists using calls for breeding bird censuses

Hi Art, I tried to cover other things that may be acceptable by saying...

Quote
"I just think it should not be used JUST to get a photo"
Unquote

...to my mind there can be a small number of justifiable exceptions to the above and yours may be one example where I believe it may be acceptable.

So I am really directing my comment where using a call/audio is for the benefit of the person (eg Photographer) and NOT for the benefit of the subject :)

I think its good to bring issues like this out for discussion :)

Tell

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Tell,

re:

I tried to cover other things that may be acceptable by saying...

Quote
"I just think it should not be used JUST to get a photo"
Unquote

...to my mind there can be a small number of justifiable exceptions to the above and yours may be one example where I believe it may be acceptable.

Are you saying that it is OK for biologists to use tapes (but not for photographers to use tapes)?

So I am really directing my comment where using a call/audio is for the benefit of the person (eg Photographer) and NOT for the benefit of the subject :)

I would think that whomever is using the tape is not using it for the benefit of the individual bird. But I do believe that audio can be used without stressing the bird and/or without having a negative effect on either the bird or its breeding efforts.

I think its good to bring issues like this out for discussion :)

On that we agree 100%. Europeans tend to be much more conservative with these types of issues and many birders here consider the use of tapes to be a criminal activity.

From where I sit, we need to consider the bigger picture (and I have made these two points before):

#1: We are and have been for decades trashing the planet, destroying the habitat, and polluting the land and the water.
#2: When folks see good images of various types of wildlife they are more likely to get involved in environmental issues.

[Tell Dickinson]

Hi Art,

"Are you saying that it is OK for biologists to use tapes (but not for photographers to use tapes)?"

I believe using audio stops a bird from doing what it should be doing like looking for food, defending its territory against real birds, looking after its young, finding a mate etc etc and if this is JUST for the sake of a photograph then I believe it is wrong. If there are other valid reasons (and that could possibly include photography) which benefits the species then it 'may' be acceptable to use audio to attract the bird/animal in my opinion, however I do not believe that using audio JUST to take a photograph of a species that has been photographed millions of times before would normally come into this category. In a similar way I also think that capturing and ringing birds MUST stress them but in this case the information we gain that helps the whole species hopefully outweighs this and is therefore acceptable or perhaps even essential.

"But I do believe that audio can be used without stressing the bird and/or without having a negative effect on either the bird or its breeding efforts."

I think we will have to 'agree to disagree' on that one Art :) but I am sure that the vast majority of people that use audio honestly believe with what you said also and would stop using it if they thought otherwise.

#1: We are and have been for decades trashing the planet, destroying the habitat, and polluting the land and the water.
#2: When folks see good images of varous types of wildlife they are more likely to get involved in envoronmental issues.

We are in complete agreement of both of your points there Art :) and I think your #2 is essential and without it the world would be in even more trouble than it already is.

Tell

[Daniel Cadieux]

Some good points and concerns have been raised, thank you all. One thing to remember is that bird photography has taken a tremendous leap in popularity in recent years. With that comes more and more people using such techniques as using audio (it may be a "best kept secret" but it is rising in its use and more widespread than it seems). Most people have no malicious intent and do use audio in good faith, but many of these also probably unwillingly abuse, or push the ethics enveloppe and stress out birds without realizing it. If we can point out some concerns through discussions such as these then we can certainly prevent some people from abusing such techniques.

Using audio is not going away any time soon (if ever), therefore educating photographers about the proper use of such tools, and pointing out stress signals to avoid causing them from our beloved subjects can only be a good thing towards nature. Audio is certainly not for everyone, but for most of us who do choose to employ it openly we do so the most ethical way possible (I understand everyones' ethics vary)...and hopefully educate others along the way.

[Arthur Morris]

Bravo, bravo!

[Ray Anderson]

Daniel,
the practice has now become widespread not only for photographers but bird observers as well. the problem is not with education but the practice itself. Stress on a particular bird is not the problem. Alteration of the species behaviour is. There are now a number of examples of particularly secretive species where this technique has been over-used to the point where the species will no longer respond to its call.
There is as yet no evidence as to its effect on population numbers but then it will be difficult to collect the evidence!

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Ray,

I am glad to see that this thread woke you up!

the practice has now become widespread not only for photographers but bird observers as well. the problem is not with education but the practice itself.

I disagree there.

Stress on a particular bird is not the problem. Alteration of the species behaviour is. There are now a number of examples of particularly secretive species where this technique has been over-used to the point where the species will no longer respond to its call.

Are you referring to locally rare or out of range birds and pairs of birds, or to populations of specific species in general? (I strongly suspect the former.)

Either way, please share an example or two with us and let us know where we can find the documentation.

There is as yet no evidence as to its effect on population numbers but then it will be difficult to collect the evidence!

We do agree on that.

[George Zanotti]

There is an iphone ap for birding that claims to be able to attract them as well with songs. It is called iBird.

I dont have it, and therefore, havent tried it, but find it interesting that I never heard of this before and now see it twice in a week.

George

[Arthur Morris]

Hey George, It is a good product and is cheap, cheap. The guy got all the photographers to donate their images, quite a few decent ones in fact, and has sold a zillion of them by undercutting all of the other products, the ones that paid photographers fairly. Shame on all of those who gave this guy their images for nothing. Hats off to the guy for being smart enough to get good, free images and make boatloads of money.

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

I think that discussing this subject is a fabulous idea, but at the end of the day people will do whatever they want in nature and to some unscrupulous characters obtaining an image at any cost is unfortunately the norm. Those people will be far less likely to inhabit discussions on the topic such as this, or any photographic topic for that matter, as they just want to be better than all others around them. These people will sadly also happily suck every bit of useful info for their needs from any sources without giving anything back.

I began using calls about a year ago, and though sparingly, I found that yes, they are a good thing in a way. I do unfortunately (perhaps?) have a real sense of caring for these birds and even more so now as I am a licensed wildlife carer and found that in the past six or so months, I use calls less and less - though didn't entirely cut their use out. I 100% agree that certain times the calls should not be used such as in breeding season or times when distress is identified in the bird(s). It is more challenging sans audio for sure, but the efforts are as satisfactory if not better.

On that iBird thing, if I read right. I cannot believe that someone has the audacity to obtain free images to make a profit. that is disgusting. I wouldn't take my hat off to that tosser Artie, but give him a stern uppercut! Scumbag as far as I am concerned and those that were stupid enough to donate images, well..... I rest my case Sir. :D

Best regards folks. :)

[Ray Anderson]

Art,
I think the issue as with all ecological / evolutionary issues is that they take time. If we wait until all the evidence is in, its probably too late. Pollution, melting ice caps, rising sea levels, habitat destruction, are issues that if we take a snapshot are irrelevant but take a time lapse and its a different story.
Similarly here and probably with greater difficulty, as I pointed out, not only because the very practice may make evidence difficult to obtain but also its an area that doesnt readily attract finance for research.
So lets look at it logically. The importance of bird song to reproduction and social interaction is inescapable.
The next question then is, are we interfering with that process when we use recorded song?
We wouldn't use it if it was ineffective! "Bird Song Biological themes and variations" by Catchpole and Slater outlines many areas of research that suggest that we may be interfering with the learning and production of song. You ask if it is populations / individuals etc. Fledglings in learning their song appear to reject similar calls that have no effect - maybe we are influencing the population in an unwanted direction to the point where mating may be interfered with?
My point is the "maybe" . Global warming has its sceptics even with the preponderance of evidence. Do we have to wait for a calamity to unfold before we are convinced, - or should we look at the balance of probability based upon the logic of the situation.
You ask for an example. Thomas & Thomas "Birds of Australia" p73 (Frogmouth Publications 1996, ISBN 0 9528065 0 9) refers to the Rufous Scrub-Bird at a popular rainforest retreat, O'Reilly's in Queensland and notes that thousands of people all over the world try for this bird but it is no longer co-operative.
Anecdotal evidence is likely to be the only evidence for many years.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Ray,

re:

I think the issue as with all ecological / evolutionary issues is that they take time. If we wait until all the evidence is in, its probably too late.

You originally wrote,

"Stress on a particular bird is not the problem. Alteration of the species behaviour is. There are now a number of examples of particularly secretive species where this technique has been over-used to the point where the species will no longer respond to its call."

I wrote, "Are you referring to locally rare or out of range birds and pairs of birds, or to populations of specific species in general? (I strongly suspect the former.) Either way, please share an example or two with us and let us know where we can find the documentation.

Aside from mentioning one situation in Australia, one with only anecdotal evidence that may have nothing to do with cause and effect, you did not answer my questions and failed to back up your original statement. I need to take issue when folks make statements of fact to support an argument when in fact the statements of fact are simply their opinions.

Again, here is what you wrote: "Alteration of the species behaviour is. There are now a number of examples of particularly secretive species where this technique has been over-used to the point where the species will no longer respond to its call."

Yet you offer only one weak example and have no documentation.


Pollution, melting ice caps, rising sea levels, habitat destruction, are issues that if we take a snapshot are irrelevant but take a time lapse and its a different story.

I agree 100% but please do not equate the playing of tapes with the issues above.

Similarly here and probably with greater difficulty, as I pointed out, not only because the very practice may make evidence difficult to obtain but also its an area that doesnt readily attract finance for research.
So lets look at it logically. The importance of bird song to reproduction and social interaction is inescapable.
The next question then is, are we interfering with that process when we use recorded song?

In your opinion, yes. In my opinion, no.

We wouldn't use it if it was (sic: were) ineffective! "Bird Song Biological themes and variations" by Catchpole and Slater outlines many areas of research that suggest that we

Who is we and in what manner are "we" interfering???

may be interfering with the learning and production of song. You ask if it is populations / individuals etc. Fledglings in learning their song appear to reject similar calls that have no effect - maybe we are influencing the population in an unwanted direction to the point where mating may be interfered with?

And maybe not.

My point is the "maybe" . Global warming has its sceptics even with the preponderance of evidence. Do we have to wait for a calamity to unfold before we are convinced, - or should we look at the balance of probability based upon the logic of the situation.

Again, your comparing the playing of recorded songs of birds, a practice that might affect 1/10th of 1 percent of a given species, with major global environmental issues is hard to understand.

You ask for an example. Thomas & Thomas "Birds of Australia" p73 (Frogmouth Publications 1996, ISBN 0 9528065 0 9) refers to the Rufous Scrub-Bird at a popular rainforest retreat, O'Reilly's in Queensland and notes that thousands of people all over the world try for this bird but it is no longer co-operative.

As I suspected, your comments referred to a locally rare and desirable (for birders) species. And maybe the bird hasjust gotten wise to the tape....

I am afraid that we will need to agree to disagree on the use of tapes. And IAC, it would seem much better to teach folks to use recordings judiciously so as to minimize any potential disturbance than to have lots of folks running around playing tapes recklessly. We are working here to educate the photographers. Who is gonna educate the birders??? I subscribe to all the birding magazines and have never seen the issue addressed (other than in advertisements for the recordings).

Respectfully.

[Arthur Morris]

On a note un-related to my comments above, in my very imited experience the great majority of birds ignore the tape, a small percentage will respond, and an even smaller percentage will be visibly upset. When a bird comes in to investigate and the tape is turned off, the bird may stay close and sing repeatedly. After a bird comes in once or twice, they will usually but not always ignore repeated playing of the song.

[WIlliam Maroldo]

First time I used a bird call to attract clapper rails I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread. However, I found that it is possible to attract two birds from different territories, and once they see each other where the actual call came from is moot. I essentially brought two male clapper rails together, and a vicious fight ensued. The fight continued from an open area to vegetation that blocked my view, and I don't know if there was serious consequences. Nonetheless, along with the possibility of young not being protected from predation while the bird is investigation a phantom rival, the fact is that even clapper rails and other so called secretive birds can be photographed without audio. The important information is what area they inhabit, and this can be discovered not only visually but simply by listening to their calls.
One other thing. Individual birds I photograph, herons, egrets, rails, and others tend to remain in relatively confined areas, and even if a bird call was effective, which it largely isn't, it isn't necessary. Since I am aware of many birds "homes", I will never compromise their safety, actually for selfish reasons; I want them to be there the next time I come to capture their images.

I don't use bird calls, and in discussion with novice photographers, I do not volunteer the possibility.
regards~BILL

[Scott Fairbairn]

Hey George, It is a good product and is cheap, cheap. The guy got all the photographers to donate their images, quite a few decent ones in fact, and has sold a zillion of them by undercutting all of the other products, the ones that paid photographers fairly. Shame on all of those who gave this guy their images for nothing. Hats off to the guy for being smart enough to get good, free images and make boatloads of money.

On one of the other nature sites, a couple of photographers openly discuss how they donated, not just a few, but hundreds of images. It is mindboggling to think that someone can develop a product, and have an essential component given to you so you can make money with it.

It is difficult to prove one way or another if taping is harmful or not. I haven't done a great deal of it, but one thing I have noticed is that it only works for a very short time. In areas that are taped heavily, the birds ignore the call. I suspect they learn the dialect and recognize it for the "phantom" that it is.

I think it falls in to a similar realm as baiting owls. Difficult to prove any harm, but not everyone's cup of tea, and it generates strong emotions on either side of the debate.

[Paul Lagasi]

I have been away on a trip....first time, I've been on line....I agree completely with Dan's comment ...

"Using audio is not going away any time soon (if ever), therefore educating photographers about the proper use of such tools, and pointing out stress signals to avoid causing them from our beloved subjects can only be a good thing towards nature. Audio is certainly not for everyone, but for most of us who do choose to employ it openly we do so the most ethical way possible (I understand everyones' ethics vary)...and hopefully educate others along the way.

Paul Lagasi...

[Ed Erkes]

I have no problems with the use of calls (and have used them on occasion) in areas that aren't heavily birded AND where it is not illegal! My understanding is that is not legal in National Parks, National Wildlife Refuges, and many state parks. It is considered harassment of wildlife (alteration of behavior by the playing of the tape).

[Ilija Dukovski]

...The guy got all the photographers to donate their images, quite a few decent ones in fact, and has sold a zillion of them by undercutting all of the other products, the ones that paid photographers fairly. Shame on all of those who gave this guy their images for nothing. Hats off to the guy for being smart enough to get good, free images and make boatloads of money.

Hm, although not related to this topic, it is interesting to know. You said in several occasions that bird photo sales
are down recently. Don't you think a similar thing is happening as in the music industry. They are struggling to invent a
new business model that will include the free flow of information and music products on the internet.
The band Radiohead for example offered their latest album on the internet with optional and voluntary fee.
I think it worked for them. If I gave you voluntarily a cent each time I look at one of your photos....

[Arthur Morris]

Interesting stuff Ilija. I do not know much at all about the music industry <smile>

[Michael Lloyd]

Interesting thoughts on bird calling. I think I prefer Daniel's results to those of duck and goose hunters. I'm not anti-hunting by the way. It's something I've grown away from in favor of photography.

Just curious- Should I take my feeders down? What about "fake" perches? I don't see using audio to attract birds as being any worse than someone say... throwing fish to Eagles? or baiting hawks with mice. I probably wouldn't do it... or any of the baiting tricks... or fake perches... but I certainly don't condemn those that do. It's personal preference. Automobile traffic, little kids with bb guns, domestic cats, etc... do more harm to birds than mp3 audio does (IMHO)

Aside from a one time (to be repeated) trip to Bosque I typically don't frequent heavily photographed areas. I tend to pack my "stuff" away from the crowds if I can. However, the reality is that most of my bird shots are the result of opportunity and good fortune rather than hard work :) and I'm good with that :D

[Tell Dickinson]

Just curious- Should I take my feeders down? What about "fake" perches? I don't see using audio to attract birds as being any worse than someone say... throwing fish to Eagles? or baiting hawks with mice. I probably wouldn't do it... or any of the baiting tricks... or fake perches... Hi Michael, I think the difference between the above and using audio is that with (say) a feeder the subject is getting a benefit where from using audio to attract JUST for the sake of a photograph it is not, and it may well be detrimental IMHO :)

Tell

[Michael Lloyd]

Hi Michael, I think the difference between the above and using audio is that with (say) a feeder the subject is getting a benefit where from using audio to attract JUST for the sake of a photograph it is not, and it may well be detrimental IMHO :)

Tell

Hmmm... I don't know. Feeders run out of food. Birds become dependent on them. The reality is that any time we interact with nature we affect it. I see the word :JUST" but I also have another viewpoint. How does any of us know what the photographers intent is? I don't shoot anything "just" for the sake of capturing the image. Perhaps, like most of us here, the photographer is trying to capture a piece of time that only he or she has access to so that others can enjoy what he or she has seen?

[Daniel Cadieux]

Hi Michael, I think the difference between the above and using audio is that with (say) a feeder the subject is getting a benefit where from using audio to attract JUST for the sake of a photograph it is not, and it may well be detrimental IMHO :)

Tell


But let's not forget that unmaintained, unkempt, and dirty feeders can and will cause and spread disease, and also may well be even more detrimental. Some people feed birds JUST for the sake of seeing them, but nobody gets on grandma's or auntie's (or whoever else's) back for doing so! Just like anything else, including audio, there is care to be taken. Just as there are some people's ethics that prevent them from attracting birds via audio, there are other's ethics that prevent them from feeding birds - even just seeds. I'm fine with that, but if you do use audio (or feeders), just know that that are things you can and should do to prevent negative impacts on your subjects.

Thanks everyone for all your input so far, the discussion has been great, and both sides have good points to make.:)

[Tell Dickinson]

Some people feed birds JUST for the sake of seeing them, but nobody gets on grandma's or auntie's (or whoever else's) back for doing so!:)Hi Daniel, there is a great difference IMHO :) With feeders etc the bird is free to come and go whenever it likes, no pressure whatsoever, but with audio its 'instincts' are to investigate the bogus source which means the birds behavior has been needlessly altered, whether this was to defend its territory or just stopping it looking for food perhaps to feed its youngsters etc I believe that in these circumstances the bird always loses out to some extent and never gains any benefit :(

Tell

[Jim Neiger]

Hi Daniel, there is a great difference IMHO :) With feeders etc the bird is free to come and go whenever it likes, no pressure whatsoever, but with audio its 'instincts' are to investigate the bogus source which means the birds behavior has been needlessly altered, whether this was to defend its territory or just stopping it looking for food perhaps to feed its youngsters etc I believe that in these circumstances the bird always loses out to some extent and never gains any benefit :(

Tell

The same could be said about simply being near a bird's territory. Simply sharing the planet with humans is the biggest threat to birds, IMO. Everything we humans do impacts them with the destruction of their habitat being their largest threat by far. It amazes me when people devote themselves to protecting birds from things that are relatively harmless while ignoring the overwhelming threat birds face whenever development occurs and wipes out their habitat.

Even feeders may be a threat to small birds as they typicaly attract predators. We can argue that just about anything we humans do is detrimental to birds. Why not focus these efforts on the MOST threatening issues. It's something to think about anyway.

[Tell Dickinson]

The same could be said about simply being near a bird's territory. Simply sharing the planet with humans is the biggest threat to birds, IMO. Hi Jim, I agree to a certain extent, however lots of disturbance cannot be stopped however much we try and its always possible to state scenarios that seem to prove one point of view or another, but what seems to be missed is that we are talking about is using audio for DELIBERATE disturbance of a bird JUST for a PHOTOGRAPH which in 99% of cases will just lie on someones computer without ever seeing the light of day, I personally do not see the justification in this.

Tell

[Jim Neiger]

Hi Jim, I agree to a certain extent, however lots of disturbance cannot be stopped however much we try and its always possible to state scenarios that seem to prove one point of view or another, but what seems to be missed is that we are talking about is using audio for DELIBERATE disturbance of a bird JUST for a PHOTOGRAPH which in 99% of cases will just lie on someones computer without ever seeing the light of day, I personally do not see the justification in this.

Tell
Photographs may be used to educate the public and build support for fighting the larger more meaningful battles. Birds are very used to hearing other birds call. It is a natural occurance that happens all the time. Perhaps we should gag them so they don't disturb each other.

[Grace Scalzo]

I'm upstairs at my desk. Ted is not home yet. I hear his voice "Heyya Grace, I'm home". I reply, "Hi Ted". No answer. I get up to look around, confused. I hear him again, yet no footsteps and I cannot see him. The confusion mounts and fear creaps in. I search the rest of the house, still no Ted, yet I hear his voice again and again, agitation and panic mount.

The use of audio is not for me.

[Tell Dickinson]

Photographs may be used to educate the public and build support for fighting the larger more meaningful battles.Hi Jim, as I said you can always find scenarios to try and prove one point or another, but I do not think that most disturbances will result in photographs being used for the above so the disturbance seems more likely to be for the photographer's benefit than the species. A lot of wildlife have enough trouble just surviving without man DELIBERATELY making it harder.


Birds are very used to hearing other birds call. It is a natural occurance that happens all the time. Perhaps we should gag them so they don't disturb each other.The comment was hopefully said in jest and not a serious comment on a very serious subject :(

Tell

[Michael Lloyd]

Often when discussing something there comes a time to agree to disagree...

[Jim Neiger]

This is another case of where do you draw the line. Simply being in the field can disturb wildlife. We ALL do this deliberately and just to get photographs or observe the wildlife. Our mere presence can cause disturbances. I guess my position is that we should all draw our own lines where we feel comfortable drawing them. The thing that bugs me is when some people try to force other people to draw the line where they think it should be instead of letting folks decide for themselves. I'm all for discussion, but when folks start judging the actions of others or trying to dictate the behavior of others that's where I bow out.

[Axel Hildebrandt]

I think Daniel did a very good job describing his method and what the signs of distress are. In my opinion this thread educates on the subject, which I find important since people use audio files to attract birds. I think people who use audio equipment should know as much as possible about their subject and make common sense and informed decisions such as not to use it when birds would leave or even abandon the nest, or stop when birds of the same species hear the sound and start fighting with each other, etc.

[Jim Neiger]

I think Daniel did a very good job describing his method and what the signs of distress are. In my opinion this thread educates on the subject, which I find important since people use audio files to attract birds. I think people who use audio equipment should know as much as possible about their subject and make common sense and informed decisions such as not to use it when birds would leave or even abandon the nest, or stop when birds of the same species hear the sound and start fighting with each other, etc.

Axel,

Thanks for getting this thread back on track.

Daniel,
I apologize for my part in taking it off track in the first place. I think your purpose for this was more of a how to do this properly thread than a is it right or wrong thread. Using audio recordings is a very complicated subject that few know much about. Most of the stuff I've read about it has been shear speculation.

[Arthur Morris]

Tell, Have you ever considered that the judicious playing of a bird's song might sharpen the bird's territorial defenses?

[Arthur Morris]

To all, I think that the discussion here has been a good thing. No apologies needed. And even better it has been kept completely civil which is pretty cool in and of itself...

[Tell Dickinson]

Tell, Have you ever considered that the judicious playing of a bird's song might sharpen the bird's territorial defenses?Hi Art, you could argue that but you could also argue the opposite :) but I think both ways it misses the point because I honestly believe we are stopping the bird from doing what it should be doing, protecting territory from real intruders, feeding young, looking for a mate, in a possible negative way just for our own purposes. Anyway, some people may be pleased to know that I am on my Hols, sorry vacation ;) tomorrow so will not have to put up with any more posts from me regarding this - :D

Tell

[Arthur Morris]

Have a great trip. It will be a welcome respite :) But I respect you for relentlessly bucking the tide.

[Arthur Morris]

ps: And if it could possibly be true, then it would actually be helping that bird....

[Michael Lloyd]

It's funny how a thread on a forum will stick in a persons mind :)

On the topic of calling... generally speaking... Ducks and Geese are called in by hunters every year. Then they are shot... or at least shot at. Yet the calls still work. Even after a hundred or more years the calls still work. Granted, the caller has to develop his/her skill to the point where they can fool the bird into coming into a spread... and they are in fact also using decoys to aid in their endeavor to attract the birds into the trap (very elaborate decoys in some cases)... but the practice of calling still works. Duck and Goose numbers remain strong (no "real" data to back that up btw) in spite of the hunting pressure. They haven't appreciably modified their migratory habits as a direct result of calling. I can't say that for certain about shooting but I tend to think that animals are not so educated that they make decisions about what they do based on logic. It's instinctual, not logical, behavior. I am fairly certain that they don't have long discussions about where they are going for winter survival when they are at their breeding / nesting grounds (they might... ya never know about these things. We live in an amazing place).

In my mind, the harm that comes from calling is the getting shot part, not the calling part. I think there's a lot of supposition (to be fair that includes my own) about the negativity of calling for non-lethal purposes. JMHO

[Arthur Morris]

And at Bosque, they are considering restricting all visitors to their vehicles to reduce "haraassment" of the ducks and geese. And, hunting is allowed on the refuge. Man, you gotta love that.

[Michael Lloyd]

The ducks and geese could care less about the big one-eyed thing staring and clicking at them?!? If they cared we wouldn't be getting full frame shots of them going about their daily tasks (eating, sleeping, pooping, honking). Besides... how are the going to pay us back with little "bombs" when they fly over if we are in vehicles? Bosque would not be the same if they did that.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Daniel, there is a great difference IMHO :) With feeders etc the bird is free to come and go whenever it likes, no pressure whatsoever, but with audio its 'instincts' are to investigate the bogus source which means the birds behavior has been needlessly altered, whether this was to defend its territory or just stopping it looking for food perhaps to feed its youngsters etc I believe that in these circumstances the bird always loses out to some extent and never gains any benefit :( Tell

Tell,

#1: Any thoughts on how to get birds of the same species on adjacent territories to stop singing and thus bothering their neighbors?

#2: More seriously, how do you know that playing a tape judiciously is not helping to sharpen an individual bird's territorial defenses?

[Sidharth Kodikal]

Excellent article, Daniel. I am going to try this out on some common species in my city.

Since this hasn't been brought up - unless I missed it in this long thread - the ABA ethics guidelines, as per my understanding, state that using of recordings is OK, with some caveats, of course.

"1(b) To avoid stressing birds or exposing them to danger, exercise restraint and caution during observation, photography, sound recording, or filming.
Limit the use of recordings and other methods of attracting birds, and never use such methods in heavily birded areas, or for attracting any species that is Threatened, Endangered, or of Special Concern, or is rare in your local area;"

Recommended reading: http://www.aba.org/about/ethics.html

For threatened and endangered species, using recordings may even be a violation of the Endangered Species Act, punishable by law.
http://www.cfo-link.org/downloads/laws_of_birding_Jan_2009_beatty.pdf

[Allen Hirsch]

This is a very interesting thread to me. I just ordered, from a link elsewhere within this site, an iTouch with bird calls - more so I can learn to recognize additional birds in the field by their calls than to "bait" them.

But, it certainly occurred to me that I could probably do better in my photo opps if I was able to play audio that attracted certain birds.

[Henry Domke]

1. What is the source of your bird songs?
I've just switched to using the app called BirdTunes on my iPhone. I used to use iBird but BirdTunes has more songs for each species.

2. Do you have any experience with wireless speakers?
I've just started using wireless (bluetooth) speakers. Much faster setup and no tangles. I'm using the speaker by Jawbone called Jambox. It is expensive and small but it is elegant and it plays loud.

3. What is the optimal placement for the speaker in relation to the desired perch?
What height? What direction should it be pointing? Up at the sky?

4. Is it important that the speaker be camouflaged?

5. Do you know of a list, blog or website that gives specific notes on how different species respond?
Warblers and sparrows may respond well in general, but what about specific warblers? Is one species always a dud and one almost sure to succeed?
I realize that results will probably vary, but if a Bay-breasted Warbler never responds it would be good to know.

6. Does it help to vary the song if you have the choice? Does it help to pause the song from time to time?

7. I plan to use this mostly with the smaller birds (passerines or songbirds). Are there any other species that are especially responsive?

Thanks for any help!

[Daniel Cadieux]

Hey Henry, I'll reply as best I can according to my experience. If others want to chime in that would be great too...

1. What is the source of your bird songs?
I've just switched to using the app called BirdTunes on my iPhone. I used to use iBird but BirdTunes has more songs for each species.

I use the Stokes recordings as their songs are the longest ones I know of (30-45 second clips, and some over 1 minute rather than 8-10 seconds with many others)

2. Do you have any experience with wireless speakers?
I've just started using wireless (bluetooth) speakers. Much faster setup and no tangles. I'm using the speaker by Jawbone called Jambox. It is expensive and small but it is elegant and it plays loud.

I have no experience with wireless speakers, but that is an option I'd toy with for sure. I like the idea of one less thing to carry in the field...

3. What is the optimal placement for the speaker in relation to the desired perch?
What height? What direction should it be pointing? Up at the sky?

Close enough. Some birds will actually land on the speakers. I like to place them directly underneath the area I want the birds to perch on. Sometimes just a few inches below. For rocks and logs just place the speakers on the ground below the perch. Experiment as not all individual birds will do the same.

4. Is it important that the speaker be camouflaged?

No.

5. Do you know of a list, blog or website that gives specific notes on how different species respond?
Warblers and sparrows may respond well in general, but what about specific warblers? Is one species always a dud and one almost sure to succeed?
I realize that results will probably vary, but if a Bay-breasted Warbler never responds it would be good to know.

I don't know of any such list. I find it is easier to assess by "families" of birds rather than species. For example, one year I had zero success with Ovenbirds, then the next year they were all posing like crazy. Same with Blackburnian Warbler. One year nothing, another lots. Even a species that does not work well in one spot may in another. For years I tried Eastern Wood-pewee in vain...last summer I tried for the heck of it and BAM with 5 seconds one perched beautifully inches from the speakers.

In my experience sparrows and warblers in general work better than other families.

6. Does it help to vary the song if you have the choice? Does it help to pause the song from time to time?

I don't think it helps to vary it, but you can try. What I did with my audio though is to eliminate the parts where it is the "call" rather than the "song". Some recordings even have the "alarm call". Get rid of that for sure as that tends to spook the birds or stress them. Defenitely do pause though, even if it is working. If after a few minutes nothing happens either shut it off, or switch species.

7. I plan to use this mostly with the smaller birds (passerines or songbirds). Are there any other species that are especially responsive?

Most passerine species will have some individuals respond at some point in time. Locally the rail family responds very well (Virginia Rail and Sora). Owls can respond, but not usually well enough for good photos. Woodpeckers - sapsuckers especially so in my experience. Some waterfowl such as grebes and some species of ducks approach. There may be others that I am not thinking of right now, or haven't tried with yet.

Note that a bird "responding" may not actually be responding well for photography. MANY birds will respond but stay well back. Far fewer will "respond" by coming right in and perch for beautiful photos. Still well worth it though!!

Thanks for any help!

You are welcome!

[Henry Domke]

Thanks Dan for your thoughts.
As I've been working with calling in birds I've got a few more questions:
1. How much does time of day impact responsiveness to recorded songs? I know that in general birds are much more visible and vocal in the early morning. Are they also more likely to respond to recorded songs then?

2. Are birds generally less responsive when they first arrive on site; before they have had time to stake a claim for their territory and started breeding? I ask this because I have been surprised the last few days that the Blue-gray Gnatcatcher’s have not been coming in to the calls like I would expect.

3. How do you know how close you can get? In other words, how do you know what the comfort zone is of the bird you are shooting? I find that many of the birds I am trying to call in will clearly respond, but they won’t come all the way in. They flit back-and-forth off to the sides and at a distance.

I wonder if it would help it I pulled back? I am often 20 – 25 feet from where I want the bird to be. Since these are very small birds to get them to fill a reasonable amount of the frame you have to either be very close or you have to have a lot of magnification. I’m using a 600mm lens with a 1.4x Teleconverter on a camera body with a 1.3 crop factor.

By the way, as I’m getting shots I'm posting them on online at www.pgtnaturegarden.org (http://pgtnaturegarden.org/)

[John Chardine]

Henry- Daniel mentions this in question 6 above, but I will emphasise. It is extremely important to be careful and conservative about using songs to attract birds. If you think about it, you are making a major intervention in a songbird's territory by suddenly playing the song of another of its own species inside its territory. I would not be thinking about setting up some elaborate speaker system, which takes time to setup and move. Instead I would use a small, portable hand-held system that you can switch on and off easily, and of course they take no time to set up. Think about playing a song only once or twice, rather than repeatedly, and see what happens. In my experience the best reaction you get is with the first play or two. Take long pauses between playings, and decide beforehand that you are going to leave the territory after a reasonable period of time (say 10 minutes). Stop immediately if you see signs of stress in the bird such as tail-flicking, sudden preening, drooped wings etc and more to another territory.

I use a small, hand-held, integrated amp and speaker system called, rather horribly, the iMainGo2. it works with iPods and iPhones. I use BirdJam and the Stokes CDs.

[Arthur Morris]

John, I am unaware of any studies that prove that playing a tape can be harmful though I do agree that over-doing it is not advisable. Birds engage in territorial disputes all day long yet I am not aware of any biologists who advise shooting a male from an adjacent territory in order to minimize disturbance.

How can we possibly know that playing a tape does not sharpen a bird's ability to defend its territory?

[John Chardine]

1. The best write-up on the subject on the web IMO is here (http://www.sibleyguides.com/2011/04/the-proper-use-of-playback-in-birding/)

2. The Precautionary Principle: one of many definitions available on the web is:

"Precaution – the “precautionary principle” or “precautionary approach” – is a response to uncertainty, in the face of risks to health or the environment. In general, it involves acting to avoid serious or irreversible potential harm, despite lack of scientific certainty as to the likelihood, magnitude, or causation of that harm".

3. We love our subjects more than photography.

[Daniel Cadieux]

Thanks Dan for your thoughts.

You're welcome :-)

As I've been working with calling in birds I've got a few more questions:
1. How much does time of day impact responsiveness to recorded songs? I know that in general birds are much more visible and vocal in the early morning. Are they also more likely to respond to recorded songs then?

Not much that I've experienced. The only reason I don't do it mid-day (on a clear sunny day) is because of the harsh light which doesn't do photos justice most of the time. I've had success at different times of day.

2. Are birds generally less responsive when they first arrive on site; before they have had time to stake a claim for their territory and started breeding? I ask this because I have been surprised the last few days that the Blue-gray Gnatcatcher’s have not been coming in to the calls like I would expect.

Again, I've had success at different times of the year too. It is quite normal for birds to not come in as expected...the success rate is more miss than hit by using calls (I'd say at least 75% miss). Locally I find the Yellow Warblers and Swamp Sparrows to be more responsive when they first arrive on site but this is far from scientific. Perhaps you just have a non-responsive individual gnatcatcher...perhaps it will respond at another time.

3. How do you know how close you can get? In other words, how do you know what the comfort zone is of the bird you are shooting? I find that many of the birds I am trying to call in will clearly respond, but they won’t come all the way in. They flit back-and-forth off to the sides and at a distance.

I wonder if it would help it I pulled back? I am often 20 – 25 feet from where I want the bird to be. Since these are very small birds to get them to fill a reasonable amount of the frame you have to either be very close or you have to have a lot of magnification. I’m using a 600mm lens with a 1.4x Teleconverter on a camera body with a 1.3 crop factor.

Do you conceal yourself in a blind? I've had individuals flick back and forth in trees when I'm just standing there come right down to the source of audio when I'm concealed in a blind. Common Yellowthroat comes to mind. I've not had success with this species when out in the open, but when concealed had lots of luck. Blackburnian Warbler is another example in my experience. With only 400mms to work with, I am set-up in at around 10-12 feet, sometimess LESS.

One thing to note is that a bird flitting back and forth, but not coming closer after a few minutes, will likely not come down any closer. It is time to quit on that individual, or try again later.

By the way, as I’m getting shots I'm posting them on online at www.pgtnaturegarden.org (http://www.pgtnaturegarden.org)

If those images are obtained via call-back, then I'd say you are doing well:S3:.

[Ulli Hoeger]

J Birds engage in territorial disputes all day long yet I am not aware of any biologists who advise shooting a male from an adjacent territory in order to minimize disturbance.

How can we possibly know that playing a tape does not sharpen a bird's ability to defend its territory?

Point one is true. By singing a territory is defined and defended. Important business, as only a territory of sufficient size will allow survival of the owner and his offspring. That's also why no biologist would advise to shoot a male from an adjacent territory, as the claims are already stacked out and a working system is in place.

Point two can be answered by looking at it this way: By playing a tape recording we add another competitor into the picture. One that can not be beat, since it sings louder (thanks to amp and speakers) and more enduring (as long as the battery lasts) than the real thing. There is a fine line and if we overdo it the overpowered bird will eventually do what this whole mechanisms of territoriality is all about, it will give way to the superbird with "proven" superiour biological fitness. Problem is that superbirdy will not breed and maintain the species.

Tape recordings can be put to good use (bird counts, surveys, birdphotography) and do no harm if used knowledgable and wisely. Used without some knowledge about bird behaviour and biology a lot of harm can be done (during bird counts, surveys, birdphotography). Birds may leave territory, abandon nests and nestlings, neglect care for their offspring and themselves.

So if one needs to ask what songs to play, when to play them, and where, they shouldn't be doing it as there is obviously a lack of the know how to make it a save business (people doing bird counts and surveys mostly have this kind of knowledge, and so do a lot of birdphotographers).
However, for me there is a critical difference between a photographer taking pictures of birds, and a birdphotographer.

Ulli

[Arthur Morris]

Ulli,
All points well taken. I have always espoused that tapes be played in moderation and that folks learn what and what not to do when using tapes for photography. That is why I asked Dan to write the tutorial in the ER. He did and it is excellent.

I have been photographing birds for about 28 years and have used a tape perhaps a dozen times. There are others including several folks here who would no sooner think of heading out into the field without their tape player and speakers as they would heading out without the camera and lens.

[Henry Domke]

...
3. How do you know how close you can get? In other words, how do you know what the comfort zone is of the bird you are shooting? ... I am often 20 – 25 feet from where I want the bird to be

Do you conceal yourself in a blind?

I do carry a Kwik Camo Photography Blind as I am walking around. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. I honestly can't say I see a big difference. Maybe I'm using it incorrectly. Any tips?

Occasionally I use a real blind (one that is more like a tent) but I don't like being inside of it and having my vision limited.

Thanks,
Henry
www.pgtnaturegarden.org (http://pgtnaturegarden.org/)

[Daniel Cadieux]

Point one is true. By singing a territory is defined and defended. Important business, as only a territory of sufficient size will allow survival of the owner and his offspring. That's also why no biologist would advise to shoot a male from an adjacent territory, as the claims are already stacked out and a working system is in place.

Point two can be answered by looking at it this way: By playing a tape recording we add another competitor into the picture. One that can not be beat, since it sings louder (thanks to amp and speakers) and more enduring (as long as the battery lasts) than the real thing. There is a fine line and if we overdo it the overpowered bird will eventually do what this whole mechanisms of territoriality is all about, it will give way to the superbird with "proven" superiour biological fitness. Problem is that superbirdy will not breed and maintain the species.

Tape recordings can be put to good use (bird counts, surveys, birdphotography) and do no harm if used knowledgable and wisely. Used without some knowledge about bird behaviour and biology a lot of harm can be done (during bird counts, surveys, birdphotography). Birds may leave territory, abandon nests and nestlings, neglect care for their offspring and themselves.

So if one needs to ask what songs to play, when to play them, and where, they shouldn't be doing it as there is obviously a lack of the know how to make it a save business (people doing bird counts and surveys mostly have this kind of knowledge, and so do a lot of birdphotographers).
However, for me there is a critical difference between a photographer taking pictures of birds, and a birdphotographer.

Ulli

No argument from me either. Ethical considerations are very important, as mentioned in my article. Considering the last point you make though (especially which I've bolded in the quote above), I would rather someone ask those questions and be guided with options rather than just go ahead blindly. The person/people asking questions is/are being responsible instead of remaining silent in doubt...

Re: Photographer taking pictutres of birds vs bird photographer. Is this a critical difference as far as using audio? Is one more justified than the other, or less? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just being curious about the statement.

[Daniel Cadieux]

I do carry a Kwik Camo Photography Blind as I am walking around. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. I honestly can't say I see a big difference. Maybe I'm using it incorrectly. Any tips?

Occasionally I use a real blind (one that is more like a tent) but I don't like being inside of it and having my vision limited.



I don't have experience with the quick camo blind so I can't really offer advice with that. I think I'd feel claustrophobic inside one of those!! I do use a "tent" pop-up blind and love it. I partially unzip the side windows so I can see out the sides (and let a bit of breeze flow through). I've personally had much more luck with a blind than none, especially with the warbler family. The times I don't use a blind I do try to remain very low and still, and will often hide behind tall grasses, or fallen logs, or partially hidden behind a tree. Just try to avoid standing straight up and completely out in the open.

[Henry Domke]

I do use a "tent" pop-up blind and love it.
How do you carry that in the field?

I find that carrying the camera gear is challenging enough, it weighs about 30 pounds.

Also, what method do you use to get to the birds? Do you select a promising habitat, set up and wait?

The method I use is to walk around until I hear the bird song. Then I set down my tripod and pull up the bird song on my iPhone and see if they respond. Any suggestions?

[Daniel Cadieux]

The blind I use is very light, and folds-up paper thin and compact - I just carry it over my shoulder. It sets up in seconds.

If I just walk around I don't bother bringing the blind as it is too cumbersome even with its small size. On days that I do decide to sit in a blind I go to pre-selected habitats that I know have a good number of birds and different species. I also know which species will be found there and those are my target ones for the outing. There are a few locally that are ideal that I had pre-scouted. I just set it up in a good spot relative to light angle (and set-up a perch with a good clean BG). Sit in it and listen for what is close and hope an individual will cooperate - which is not always the case!

[Ulli Hoeger]

[QUOTE=Daniel Cadieux;659523
Re: Photographer taking pictutres of birds vs bird photographer. Is this a critical difference as far as using audio? Is one more justified than the other, or less? I'm not trying to be argumentative, just being curious about the statement.[/QUOTE]

I can go to a baseball game and take photos. I don't know much about the game, still I may get a few good ones by luck or shooting numbers. I am a photographer shooting sports, not a sport photographer.
I would be more successful if I know the game, knowing what is going on and what could be going to happen. I would be able to anticipate action and potentially interesting photo ops. However, I will likely not interfere with the game or endanger player, and if I will find out by being told or even kicked out from the stadium. Now transfer this to a horseback riding arena and you add the potential of someone in front of the camera getting hurt because of me shooting horse pictures not knowing what to do and what not to do. Here being a horse photographer will not only yield better images, it also will protect my subjects -and me.

Same applies to bird and wildlife photographers, knowing your subject improves your photographic success rate, protect your subject, and -less a problem with birds- protect you from your subjects (bears, tigers, other large and/or potentially dangerous critters).

Wildlife has limited ability to let us know if we are about to cross the line or already crossed it. That's why we need to know our subjects to prevent harm to them and harm to us.

That's why I make this difference between photographing something and being a something photographer and can only wish that photographers interested in shooting something will eventually become somehtingphotographers by learning about the needs of their favorite subjects and respecting those.

Ulli

[Henry Domke]

On days that I do decide to sit in a blind I go to pre-selected habitats ...
I haven't gotten the knack for shooting from blinds yet. Perhaps you can offer some advice. Please let me know what a typical scenario might be.

1. Do you hike out to a preselected spot early in the morning and set up and immediately get in the blind and wait?

2. How long do you typically stay in the blind?

3. Do you sit in a chair? Kneel?

4. Any other advice for using blinds?

[Ulli Hoeger]

Questions #2 is the easy one.
You stay as long as you need or want to, or as long as you can stand it. It will get very warm and stuffy in those things -something to consider when setting up, i.e. find a shady spot to avoid direct sun. It can become very uncomfortable, so the answer also depends on your personal pain threshold and/or degree of obsession.

Best is if the birds don't see you entering or leaving the blind, that will make them suspicious. A common suggestion is to have someone walk you to the blind and back, if you have to take or leave position while being watched by the them. Birds seem not to care that two became or one became two.

Also a freshly set-up blind may be suspicious for a while as it is new element in the familiar scenery. More a problem with the local population than with transients, and less a problem in always changing habitats (beach, salt marsh) than in static ones (forest, backyard). If the spot is safe you may want to consider leaving a blind for a while, or construct one from branches and camo netting.

If you sit, kneel, or lay down depends on the kind of blind (head and floor space) and the shooting angle you want. Most commercial blinds are made for hunters and the peek holes are on chair level height. For low level shoots some folks cut extra holes in their blinds. Chair blinds are somewhat limited in options, so I would look into the ones a la doghouse/outhouse for mobile use, or the option to construct a more permanent structure in a good spot using military surplus netting. Burlap used to wrap up plants for the winter is also very useful (cheap and biodegradable) for constructing such fixed blinds.

Other advice?! Bring fluids to stay hydrated and alert in your hole, some snacks will not hurt as well. Also consider ways to dispose your biological waste products in case you don't have spincter muscles made from steel and the will power of a tibetan monk. If you gotta go you gotta go. Depending on location bug repellent is a must as the blood suckers will find a way inside. Don't set up on ant burrows or ground wasp nest entrances as designated hides don't have a sewn on floor like camping tents. Try not to fall asleep -you will miss the action, AND DON'T SMOKE IN THE BLIND (you may end up roasted when dry stuff underneath or the blind itself catch a spark).

Otherwise have fun -and it can be a lot of fun

Ulli

[Daniel Cadieux]

Ulli, thanks for the excellent post. Pretty much how I do it too, except I've never knowimgly had a problem with a suspicious newly set-up blind in the woods being a detriment or birds seeing me go in or out of my blind but I've heard this could be something to think about. I do try to stay put in it as long as I can though as I would agree that going in and out very often would be counter-productive.

For Henry's questions:

1. On days that I decide to do the blind thing, yes.

2. See Ulli's post. I'm very patient and I can last for hours in a blind. Needless to say the audio is off most of that time (just in case people wonder...)

3. I mostly sit on a tri-legged folding canvas stool. With my "Outhouse" blind I'm at the perfect height to see out the open window when sitting on that. For ground dwelling birds I may opt to lie down on the ground, lens pointing out beneath the bottom of the blind. Keep your shirt and pant openings tucked in to avoid accidents...nothing worse or more surprising than having a creepy crawler suddenly scurrying on your skin!!

4. Again, see Ulli's post. I'll often bring a small foldable table and small cooler to keep some snacks and drinks at close range - but this is easier to carry out in the field when I'm stationed close (walking distance) to the folks' cottge or not hiking far away from the car:S3:.

[Henry Domke]

I'm not having luck getting birds to perch where I want. They always seem to want to hang back in a thicket. That makes for messy backgrounds or for branches in front of the bird.

Suggestions?

Despite the messy background I was able to get this picture of a Prairie Warbler eating a bee yesterday:
http://pgtnaturegarden.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Prairie-Warbler-eating-a-Bee_6276_Blog.jpg

[Arthur Morris]

Get a copy of Alan Murphy's Guide to Songbird Set-ups (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=33); he teaches you how to get the bird to land where you want it. He can get them to land on his business card...

[Henry Domke]

How do you focus when shooting Warblers?
1. Do you let the camera pick the AF Sensor or do you do it? I manually select the central AF sensor. If I let the camera auto-select the AF point I find that it usually picks the wrong thing, such as a twig.

2. Do you use Servo vs One-Shot? I tend to use One-Shot since I can make sure where my selected focus point is.

3. Do you autofocus and than manually fine tune for the eye? I aim for the eye but warblers often move fast and I am lucky to get the bird in the frame and when I do I often end up focusing on the belly or wing.

4. How often do you use Extension tubes when shooting warblers? I find that I don't use them that much because it seems that I always end up wanting to focus farther away at times and the extension tube won't let me.

I'm using the Canon 600 f/4 with a 1.4 teleconverter with the 1D MkIV (which has a 1.3X crop factor)

Thanks!

[Henry Domke]

Get a copy of Alan Murphy's Guide to Songbird Set-ups (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=33); he teaches you how to get the bird to land where you want it. He can get them to land on his business card...
Artie,
I do have his book and it is great. However warblers don't seem to respond to the tricks that he uses for feeder birds. At least they have not for me yet.

[Arthur Morris]

Henry, I seem to recall that you purchased a copy of ABP II (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=19); am I correct? Pretty much all of your questions in Pane #71 are answered there....

[Arthur Morris]

Artie, I do have his book and it is great. However warblers don't seem to respond to the tricks that he uses for feeder birds. At least they have not for me yet.

Henry, what has worked for me (on the rare occasions that I have tried to tape warblers) is to set up the speaker below a very attractive perch with a relatively distant background and then play the tape for 30 seconds or so until the bird responds by coming towards the tape. Then I shut off the tape and wait. Using this technique I have gotten lucky on occasion.... Here is what I mean:

[Henry Domke]

Henry, I seem to recall that you purchased a copy of ABP II (https://store.birdsasart.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=19); am I correct?
Yes, I did buy that. Unfortunately the disc has been misplaced. I need to order a replacement disc.

[Henry Domke]

Henry, what has worked for me is to set up the speaker below a very attractive perch with a relatively distant background and then play the tape for 30 seconds or so until the bird responds by coming towards the tape. Then I shut off the tape and wait.
That is close to what I am doing now but I don't stop the tape after 30-seconds. What is the advantage of stopping?

One problem I am having is that the birds don't want to go to perches that I select. They always want to hang back in a thicket. Suggestions?

[Daniel Cadieux]

How do you focus when shooting Warblers?
1. Do you let the camera pick the AF Sensor or do you do it? I manually select the central AF sensor. If I let the camera auto-select the AF point I find that it usually picks the wrong thing, such as a twig.

I pick it. Central Sensor for these fast moving subjects. If the warbler gives me time I will then recompose.

2. Do you use Servo vs One-Shot? I tend to use One-Shot since I can make sure where my selected focus point is.

Servo, but I use the back * button to focus so I just let go of the button to lock focus if needed (and to recompose)

3. Do you autofocus and than manually fine tune for the eye? I aim for the eye but warblers often move fast and I am lucky to get the bird in the frame and when I do I often end up focusing on the belly or wing.

Autofocus on the eye. Warblers don't give you time to manually fine-tune. If you stop down a bit, light permitting, (e.g. f/8) than you can aim at the neck/breast/shoulder and still get a sharp eye.

4. How often do you use Extension tubes when shooting warblers? I find that I don't use them that much because it seems that I always end up wanting to focus farther away at times and the extension tube won't let me.

Never (for warblers).

I'm using the Canon 600 f/4 with a 1.4 teleconverter with the 1D MkIV (which has a 1.3X crop factor)

Thanks!

Hope this helps...

[Daniel Cadieux]

That is close to what I am doing now but I don't stop the tape after 30-seconds. What is the advantage of stopping?

Stopping prevents putting the subject in distress. I personally go for a few minutes at a time, then stop. Try again 2-3 times and then quit on that particular subject if it doesn't respond.

One problem I am having is that the birds don't want to go to perches that I select. They always want to hang back in a thicket. Suggestions?

Try setting up further away from the thicket. If the bird is curious enough to come out and has only the one (or two) set-up perch(es) to land on that will put chances on your side.


______________________________

[John Chardine]

Haven't looked here for a while. Lots of good information. Once small myth has crept in regarding bird behaviour so I'll nip it in the bud:

It is not necessarily true that males are having territorial disputes all day long. Typically, a piece of ground where songbirds are nesting will be a patchwork of more or less non-overlapping territories. Males hold these territories and defend them normally by singing at different points in the territory out to the boundary. This is a relatively stable system in that territory holders are aware of their neighbours, where they are, where the boundaries are and even who they are- individual males will have slightly different songs that can be recognised by other males. Once territories are set up after arrival in the spring, males do not need to engage in territorial disputes all day long. Think of it like a gentleman's club. Disputes in the form of chases, fights and other aggressive interactions can be very costly and tend to be avoided in favour of symbolic fighting in the form of singing.

Young males breeding for the first time have to first find a territory and they may have to compete with an established male territory holder to gain it. This can lead to disputes from mild to fierce. The number of young males looking for territories depends on a lot of things. In expanding populations with lots of recruits, there may be lots of males on the lookout and territory holders may have to work hard to defend their territory. In declining populations- and sadly many songbirds are declining- the number of new recruits may be small and territory holders may have it easy.

[Enrique Patino]

there is an article published today in the local paper that is fairly "neutral" on this topic, but perhaps worth reading for those interested...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015072324_birdcalls17m.html

[John Chardine]

Thanks Enrique. It's good to know this technique is not just used willy-nilly without thinking about its effects. Articles like this make people think. This article is pretty negative.

In my experience there are a few take-home messages:

1. Playback of bird song can be a very rewarding way of attracting birds for viewing or photography. (I use it frequently from April through July).

2. Use playback of bird song in moderation and be aware of the potential effects of what you are doing.

3. Don't fall into the trap that because you are doing something "natural" it doesn't have an effect, or that because there are only a few scientific papers published to date showing it has an effect, it doesn't.

4. Understand that the cumulative effects of many birders and photographers using playback in a particular area can have negative effects and understand and respect the bans in place in many parks and protected areas.

[Dave Hassell]

Here is a link to an article in the British Daily Telegraph newspaper published on May 12th.

Dave Hassell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8509216/Twitchers-could-be-prosecuted-for-their-iPhone-warbles.html