Kelby Training - Shooting Florida's Birds

[Lance Peters]

With Moose Peterson.

Has anyone seen this???
Interested in your thoughts.
(I am watching it now - will tell my thoughts once finished)

:)

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Lance Haven't seen it but Moose does mostly animals and not much in birds particularly in Fl.

[Lance Peters]

200 ISO ALWAYS - otherwise you arejust throwing away quality - explains why my shots are so crappy.
(ISO 800 )
:)

[Alfred Forns]

.... yes and just before that he was recommending using jpeg because if you got the right exposure it did make any difference !!! Not sure when the raw transformation took place :)

[Jackie Schuknecht]

Lance is there a link to this????

[Desmond Chan]

Lance is there a link to this????


Start here:

http://www.kelbytraining.com/

[Desmond Chan]

With Moose Peterson.

Has anyone seen this???
Interested in your thoughts.
(I am watching it now - will tell my thoughts once finished)

:)

I have. I think the basics are the same everywhere :)

[Lance Peters]

Hi Desmond - he made some rather curious statements in my view - like always use ISO 200 - just throwing away quality if you go any higher.
I also thought a lot of the shots shown were umm average.

[Mike Lentz]

Now I need to go watch this video.

[Desmond Chan]

Hi Desmond - he made some rather curious statements in my view - like always use ISO 200 - just throwing away quality if you go any higher.

I don't remember that because I watched that video a while ago. Anyhow, I know people who still hesitate to use "high" ISO. Recently, a photo magazine also printed an article on why, if you want quality, shooting at lower ISOs is still the way to go. So Moose is not alone. In fact, I've read statements here by some members that they were told to use such-and-such ISO, too. Nevertheless, I think for the best image quality, just like in the old days, using low ISO still seem to be the way to go. You know, not everybody has a D3 (of course Moose has one and a D3x):)


I also thought a lot of the shots shown were umm average.I think he's more like documentary type photos. He likes to say: "background tells a story."

[john crookes]

I wish I could be so UMMMMMMMMMMM average as Moose is

[Lance Peters]

I was expecting ARTIE good - must have been expecting too much.

[Tony Whitehead]

I have enjoyed a number of the series on Kelbytraining (especially some of the LR and PS tutorials and Joe McNally's lighting workshops) but I am afraid Moose's series (especially on Florida birds) and Rick Sammon's just reinforce that to be a successful photographer is not all about technical ability as some of the results shown and advice offered are very average.

[john crookes]

Tony

I would like to know what you find average in Moose's training videos.

Do you disagree with the statements or do you think he presented badly.
The videos are aimed at the large audience and not for select above average Photographers.

I think the videos do a decent job of providing a foundation for the aspiring Photographer.

Al,


Moose advocated jpeg years ago when raw processing was still above the normal or average persons capabilities He now photos in Both at the same time and is one of the few individuakls I knowe that is willing to post the jpeg as it was captured without any enhancements at all just what was set in the camera.

Sometimes I think we get too caught up with the technoligies that we come to rely on and forget the basic principles that got us here

[Alfred Forns]

Hi John

Even back then the very few people were doing jpeg and can't think of any high end photographers except Moose? When he recommends something it does carry weight ...... and responsibility.

As far as the video I have not seen it, I'm sure its well done and has lots of information. Just find it strange to do one in FL birds which out of his expertise. It does take local knowledge for the best advise and if you are in need of advice why not get the best?

I Co-Lead all the IPTs for Artie and we had a special student a couple of years ago. He wanted to start doing more birds and wanted to learn since just knowing photography is not enough ... student's name ... John Shaw !!! Imagine before attending the workshop he could have done a video on bird photography in Florida.

I know Moose have the greatest respect and know about all his accomplishments. Just think its odd to do this video.

[john crookes]

Al,

Back then many were not even converted to digital and were still using slide film Moose was one of the first to convert to digital and was advocating setting the camera right for photography and if you photographed proberley then exposed right jpeg was easier to control output to computers then.

Even George Lepp advocated jpeg for awhile.

The video was done in Florida because it was done around the same time as Moose was doing a seminar dwn ther which I believe Jim Poor attended

[john crookes]

Mooses BIo

Bio

A Nikon Legend Behind the Lens (http://www.nikonnet.com/dyn/articles/article_detail/93.html), Lexar Elite Photographer (http://www.lexar.com/dp/pro_photo/moosepeterson.html), recipient of the John Muir Conservation Award, Research Associate with the Endangered Species Recovery Program, published in over 130 magazines worldwide, author of 23 books and lecturing across the country to thousands upon thousands of photographers barely covers the work and goals of wildlife photographer Moose Peterson. One of the original Nikon shooters to receive the D1 in 1999, Moose embraced this new technology becoming the only wildlife photographer in the world to shoot strictly digital in the early years. A beta site for all the major hardware and software manufacturers, Moose continues his main goal of photographing the life history of North America 's endangered wildlife and wildplaces using the latest tools. A creative innovator of new techniques both behind the camera and the computer is the driving force behind his photography and goals





















I believe he is qualified to lead a basic course in Bird Photography and to teach Digital basics

[Tony Whitehead]

Tony

I would like to know what you find average in Moose's training videos.

Do you disagree with the statements or do you think he presented badly.
The videos are aimed at the large audience and not for select above average Photographers.

I think the videos do a decent job of providing a foundation for the aspiring Photographer.

Al,


Moose advocated jpeg years ago when raw processing was still above the normal or average persons capabilities He now photos in Both at the same time and is one of the few individuakls I knowe that is willing to post the jpeg as it was captured without any enhancements at all just what was set in the camera.

Sometimes I think we get too caught up with the technoligies that we come to rely on and forget the basic principles that got us here

Hi John,
I suspect I, like Lance , was just expecting too much. I have bought his books and enjoyed Mooses' writing and was hoping for something more in the videos. I guess if the video is aimed at the average audience (not too sure how that is defined) it may have reached it's target but if it was aimed at people wanting to get the most out of a trip to photograph Florida birds it left me expecting more. It's been a while since I watched the series and don't feel inclined to go back and review it all for the sake of this reply but my overall recollection was that what seem like basic issues like shooting angle, light angle and quality, BG control were not well covered and the images shown as examples were of very average quality and would look out of place on BPN Avian. If stepping up as an expert on a topic I would have expected some top quality images to showcase what is achievable and give viewers something to aspire to. The take home message seemed to be get a 600mm lens, teleconverter, put it on a tripod at a comfortable shooting height , use a flash and beamer with an external battery pack and that was all you needed. This sort of excludes the average photographer or just leaves them feeling it's impossible without the gear. I guess it generated some sales though.
I still have a high regard for his achievements and abilities but just don't feel he lived up to expectation on what is essentially a relatively specialised subject. I love his energy and enthusiasm but find his uncritical assessments of all things Nikon does somewhat undermine any appearance of objectivity ( I am a dedicated Nikon fan for over 20 years so this comment doesn't come from a competitive viewpoint) and makes me wonder about his motivation.
"Sometimes I think we get too caught up with the technoligies that we come to rely on and forget the basic principles that got us here" - this statement of yours is interesting as I felt that in the video too much attention was placed on the gear and not enough on the basic imaging principles required for birds.

[Lance Peters]

Well put Tony - my thoughts exactly. :)

[Desmond Chan]

Hi John,
I guess if the video is aimed at the average audience (not too sure how that is defined) it may have reached it's target

I think that's what it is. If you don't like that one, you should have seen the one by Rick Sammon, see how he shoots flying birds. I wish Rick tried that on flying swallows :) Having said that, I believe Rick's one is for the generalists, beginners to average Joe who has a camera and would like to know a trick or two in taking various kinds of photos.



but if it was aimed at people wanting to get the most out of a trip to photograph Florida birds it left me expecting more. If that's the purpose, I would expect it to include birding locations in Florida and directions to get there.


like shooting angle, light angle and quality, BG control were not well covered Light and wind behind you, walk slowly towards the birds...covered.


The take home message seemed to be get a 600mm lens, teleconverter, put it on a tripod at a comfortable shooting height , use a flash and beamer with an external battery pack and that was all you needed. This sort of excludes the average photographer or just leaves them feeling it's impossible without the gear. I don't think that's the take home message. As many of us here don't have a 600mm and better beamer but we still go out and enjoy photographing birds. Then of course, many of us also wish we had a 600mm :)


Moose continues his main goal of photographing the life history of North America 's endangered wildlife and wildplaces using the latest tools.I think that's one of his goals. He's more like documentary type photo, I think, and not purely for producing something visually pleasing. He says: "background tells a story." Not just for bird photos, for wild-life, too (see his Yellowstone Big Game Photography video). And I think comparing fine art, purely eye-pleasing photos and documentary photos sometimes don't work well.

[Roger Clark]

Regarding jpegs. When people jumped from slide film to digital, even digital jpegs had greater dynamic range and a higher signal-to-noise ratio than slide film. Many most still shot film side-by-side with digital. A well-exposed jpeg can have great tonality and low noise and can make an excellent image. Having said that, a good modern raw converter can produce a better, sharper image with only slightly greater dynamic range.