Canon 1D Mark III

[Jerry Fornarotto]

With all the new downloads, repairs & updates on the Canon 1D Mark III, how is it working in the field? I do not see many images being posted shot with the Canon 1D Mark III. Can we get some feedback from the members out there?
Jerry

[Alfred Forns]

Jerry I don't have one any more (switch to Nikon)

From the people I have spoken with the software update did have positive results Have not had a chance to use one with the sub mirror assembly fix

Artie just got a 1DsMk3 and likes the focusing very much It is the same as the fixed 1DMk3

[Robert Amoruso]

It will come when I get my "fixed" mark III back from Canon.

[Pete Woods]

I am on my 3rd copy. latest being a blue dot copy. I have to say the AF is far more sure footed now. I think the camera is now what it was supposed to be when released.

I never had the issues other had, however AF used to be jittery. Firmware 1.1.3 I loaded onto my second copy did cure most of that. However my dealer was kind enough to change it for me (24th December) and I am now very happy with my Mark3

All the best
Pete

[Alfred Forns]

Glad to hear Pete and thanks for the feedback

[Jerry Fornarotto]

Pete,
Is it better than the 1D MK II. I'm shooting with a MK II now, is it worth the upgrade & the risk?

[Pete Woods]

Pete,
Is it better than the 1D MK II. I'm shooting with a MK II now, is it worth the upgrade & the risk?

Not had a Mk II, I came from a 30D.

That said I do not think there is a risk in purchasing a Mk3 now as long as it is a Blue Dot copy.

One thing I have read from people coming from previous 1D's is that the AF system requires re-learning, you cannot transpose your methods across to the mark3 and expect the same results it is a far more complicated/adjustable system.

Many mk3 owners that have come from previous 1D's have been frustrated as they just expected to use it as per the older models, I think/know this is not the case and you will need to adjust to the new system. You will not be disappointed though.

Can you not try before you buy. that would make it an easier decision for you.

[Jerry Fornarotto]

Thanks Pete. You answered my question.
Jerry

[E.J. Peiker]

...1DsMk3 and likes the focusing very much It is the same as the fixed 1DMk3

It's actually not the same, it uses a different mirror assembly and sub-mirror assembly and different AF algorithms. This is due to the larger mirror required to reflect the larger image into the eyepiece and the slower frame rate. The actual AF sensors are the same but the light getting to them gets there a little bit different and the computing behind what the sensors are telling the aF CPU's is a bit different.

[Alfred Forns]

Thanks EJ !!!!!

Speaking with some Canon people trying to get my Mk3 resolved I was told that all was fine (hardware) since no changes were made to the Ds Got the idea it was the same set up Probably misunderstanding on my part

It seems that the 1DsMk3 is working much better Glad to hear that !!!

[mikeivan]

Reading this it sound like the fix has improved things but not solved the problem.
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9168 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9168)

[Jim Neiger]

I have used a 1D3 since July 1st with no AF problems. Upgrading the firmware to 1.1.3 improved the already great AF. I was using my 1D2N prior to getting the 1D3 and the 1D3 has outperformed the 1D2N from day 1. I still have my 1D2N as a backup, but I don't use it because the 1D3 is better in every way. That said, I was lucky enough to get a 1D3 with no problem. Others have had problems with the AF prior to the fix.

[Fred J. Lord]

That said, I am sending it in for the update just to take advantage of the extended warranty period. I actually have had zero problems and I did around 5K frames of testing when I received it in early June. I just sold my 1D Mark II on ebay as I hadn't used it since receiving the Mark III. I will be posting many frames from both cameras which will allow some limited comparisons on this site.

[Gail Yovanovich]

I've very interested in this topic since I've been getting ready to purchase the 1D3 but have hestitated because of its problems. So what is a "blue dot" copy and how does one obtain one?

[Pete Woods]

Blue Dot is what they are sticking on the boxes of new production models to identify they are fitted with the new sub mirrors. The Blue Dot is located next to the barcode on the box.

[Gail Yovanovich]

Many thanks, Pete. I will look for this when I purchase.

Gail.

[Emil Martinec]

I held off purchasing a Mark 3 for six months while waiting for the AF issue to be sorted out, so I have no experience of "unfixed" Mark 3's. I am also coming from a 20D, so no previous experience with pro bodies. That said, I am quite happy with my Blue Dot 1D3. AI servo seems to be working properly, with no focus oscillation. I have looked carefully at flight shot sequences in AI servo, and when there are focus errors I can usually find a reason in operator error (letting the focus point slip off the subject most commonly).

Bottom line, I am very happy with my decision to get the Mark 3. I am also glad I waited, and didn't have to suffer the frustrations that many early adopters did.

[Gail Yovanovich]

Thanks, Emil. May I assume that all M3's being sold now are blue dot, including those purchased on the internet (B&H, Amazon.com, etc.)? I'm also coming off the D series, and this will be my first pro body - I don't want to be disappointed or have a bunch of hassles trying to get it "fixed."

Gail.

[Andrew McCullough]

Great thread. I am in the same situation. I now use a 20D. If I buy a 1 series, I want it to be good because I am will be using it for awhile (ie I still use a 20D :) There is so much on the internet about this camera, but I put a lot more credibility into the observations of people here and at NSN than those from most other places.

[Emil Martinec]

Thanks, Emil. May I assume that all M3's being sold now are blue dot, including those purchased on the internet (B&H, Amazon.com, etc.)? I'm also coming off the D series, and this will be my first pro body - I don't want to be disappointed or have a bunch of hassles trying to get it "fixed."

Gail.

Yes, any camera you get now from a reputable dealer (including the internet sites you mention) should be "fixed" (aka Blue Dot). I got mine from Dell, taking a chance on a rather sweet and short-lived deal a couple of months ago.

That said, there do seem to be varying reports as to how well the fix works, and I have no previous experience with 1 series bodies to be able to judge. Also, Canon does seem to be going through some hiccups with quality assurance these days; be sure to buy from a dealer with a decent return policy and test it like crazy during the return window, because the one you get may still be substandard.

I spent the first thousand frames shooting gulls, and cars on the motorway, checking out the AI servo. The result? The camera worked OK when I kept the focus point on the subject consistently. It works better now that my tracking skills have improved -- I had given up trying with the 20D because its AI servo is woeful. I still have a way to go.

[Gail Yovanovich]

Again, many thanks, Emil. This thread has given me lots of info, as well as the assurance I needed to go ahead and make the purchase. My tracking skills also need work, but I'm hoping the M3 will help. I have taken several decent flight photos with two different D series cameras but, boy, it's a real struggle to lock on focus. I will be sure to do lots of testing right away as you suggest. Cheers....Gail.

[Steve Roman]

Not had a Mk II, I came from a 30D.

That said I do not think there is a risk in purchasing a Mk3 now as long as it is a Blue Dot copy.

One thing I have read from people coming from previous 1D's is that the AF system requires re-learning, you cannot transpose your methods across to the mark3 and expect the same results it is a far more complicated/adjustable system.

Many mk3 owners that have come from previous 1D's have been frustrated as they just expected to use it as per the older models, I think/know this is not the case and you will need to adjust to the new system. You will not be disappointed though.

Can you not try before you buy. that would make it an easier decision for you.

As a previous 1D owner I would have to disagree with this. I was never frustrated and found the camera to be little different in application from a MKIIN. Although I mostly used the camera in single shot, it worked for me in servo as well. The idea that the camera has to be used and setup differently in order to get focused shots was a line pushed by Canon before they acknowledged that there was a problem. I have a mirror fixed MKIII and it works pretty much like a MKIIN. There are some minor setting differences, but the basics of servo and one shot are the same.

[Fred J. Lord]

I had been using my Mark II since May, 2004. My new Mark III (June, 2007) gave no problems and the user interface was very easy to adapt to for me and I'm not really all that adaptable (just ask my wife). The interface is actually much better on the Mark III over the Mark II and all the so-called programming "tips" were more cogent to those having focusing problems.

It should not be difficult at all to adapt to the 1-Series from the 1.6X bodies. I did step up from a D60 to the 1D Mark II in 2004 and it was so much fun I thought I should do it again with the Mark III. It wasn't as large a step, however, and I did love my Mark II. Once the Mark III arrived, I never used the Mark II again, ever. It's now with its new owner in Europe.

Emil, glad you're using the Mark III now. I don't know how you could improve much though.

Fred

[Geurt Bloem]

Got my M3 in August of 2007 and initially had the impression that it is working but with some problems. The whole web debacle started me losing my trust in the piece of equipment and I saw lots of "errors". Had the mirror fix, installed 1.1.3 and still had negative thoughts. I even started to look at the Nikon 3D very seriously, until I went back to my archives and started to really look at my 1D M2N images versus my 1D MIII images and I found I had the same percentages of "successes" and "failures" in very similar light/temp/scene scenarios between the 2 bodies. I made an effort to get to trust the new body and am staring to enjoy the MIII. It is on par to the M2N , for me that is, with AF and better in the area of color, general image quality and light metering. SO I am building on the positive points now rather than the negative ones.

[Robert Amoruso]

You have made some valid points here. My MIII has been with Canon since just before Christmas (and I have started beating on them as to why so long - their response the hoildays) so have been shooting a lot with my Mark IIn. I noticed the same thing, success rate is pretty close. However, the differences in the AF with the Mark III requires you to adopt a new shooting style, one more centered around choosing a singular sensor and staying on the bird for BIF for example. Once you adopt your shooting style, successes go up.

More when I get the MIII back.


Got my M3 in August of 2007 and initially had the impression that it is working but with some problems. The whole web debacle started me losing my trust in the piece of equipment and I saw lots of "errors". Had the mirror fix, installed 1.1.3 and still had negative thoughts. I even started to look at the Nikon 3D very seriously, until I went back to my archives and started to really look at my 1D M2N images versus my 1D MIII images and I found I had the same percentages of "successes" and "failures" in very similar light/temp/scene scenarios between the 2 bodies. I made an effort to get to trust the new body and am staring to enjoy the MIII. It is on par to the M2N , for me that is, with AF and better in the area of color, general image quality and light metering. SO I am building on the positive points now rather than the negative ones.

[Jacqui Hendry]

I just love my mkIII,

I am reasonably new to photography 1 years experience so far and have upgraded from a 400d or XTI in the States I believe,

My camera has been fixed with a new sub mirror and so far I have had no problems.

Jacqui

[Jim Neiger]

You have made some valid points here. My MIII has been with Canon since just before Christmas (and I have started beating on them as to why so long - their response the hoildays) so have been shooting a lot with my Mark IIn. I noticed the same thing, success rate is pretty close. However, the differences in the AF with the Mark III requires you to adopt a new shooting style, one more centered around choosing a singular sensor and staying on the bird for BIF for example. Once you adopt your shooting style, successes go up.

More when I get the MIII back.

Compared to the 1D2, the 1D3 is faster and more responsive to subject changes. Setting the tracking sensitivity to slow helps, but it's still more sensitive than the 1D2. Learning to use bump focus techniques and using only the center af pint helps tremendously for BIF. The 1D3 is easily the best camera I have used to photograph BIF.

[Ed Cordes]

So, it sounds like the bottom line is that it is "safe" to plunk down $4500 for the MKIII? I am one who has been waiting since its intro, but was scared off with the AF issue. If it is "fixed" I will want one prior to a trip to Greece coming up in June.

[Antonio Quezon]

Compared to the 1D2, the 1D3 is faster and more responsive to subject changes. Setting the tracking sensitivity to slow helps, but it's still more sensitive than the 1D2. Learning to use bump focus techniques and using only the center af pint helps tremendously for BIF. The 1D3 is easily the best camera I have used to photograph BIF.

If the advertised purpose of the extra AF points is to help with rapidly moving subjects (BIF) or to assist with composition, doesn't it defeat the purpose by limiting shooting technique to single center point AF?

TonyQ

[c.w. moynihan]

So, it sounds like the bottom line is that it is "safe" to plunk down $4500 for the MKIII? I am one who has been waiting since its intro, but was scared off with the AF issue. If it is "fixed" I will want one prior to a trip to Greece coming up in June.

Sounds like a roll of the dice to me. My 1Ds Mark III arrives tommorow. The extra $3,500 in financial pain is worth it to me not to have to worry about getting a good sample with no focus issues. Something is just not right with this camera as some fixed ones are still exhibiting inconsistent focusing.

[Pete Woods]

Sounds like a roll of the dice to me. My 1Ds Mark III arrives tommorow. The extra $3,500 in financial pain is worth it to me not to have to worry about getting a good sample with no focus issues. Something is just not right with this camera as some fixed ones are still exhibiting inconsistent focusing.

Agree that some FIXED camera's still have issues but those with new Blue Dot examples are getting great reviews... A fix is only as good as the person that carries it out.....

Blue Dot (NEW) 1D MKIII's are good to go :)

[Martin Dyer]

My 'fixed' mark3 is no better now than before the fix.

Works reasonably well in bright conditions but just falls to pieces when a cloud turns up.

Nowhere near as sharp as my old Mark2N and not as sharp as my partners 40D when I did back to back tests on that either.

[Arthur Morris]

Itis truly amazing how some folks have totally unrelated problems with the same cameras while others have no problems at all. I have written tons on my experiences with the 1D MIII and will be doing the same on my new 1Ds MIII. Visit the web site and read the Bulletins from the past year in the archives. It's all free.

later and love, artie

[Robert Amoruso]

Compared to the 1D2, the 1D3 is faster and more responsive to subject changes. Setting the tracking sensitivity to slow helps, but it's still more sensitive than the 1D2. Learning to use bump focus techniques and using only the center af pint helps tremendously for BIF. The 1D3 is easily the best camera I have used to photograph BIF.

My technique with the 1D Mark IIn is different then Jim's but with the MIII I find I bump the focus as I track and not try to maintain focus throughout. Bump it just as the bird gets into the "zone" and start shooting as you track.

I think Jim's shooting style before the Mark III is incredibly accurate and was well suited to the Mark III.

[Kenn Christensen]

its funny.. Ive had very little problem with the Mk III... but I came from the 20D.. and I shoot the Mk III the same way I shot that.. I use center point focus.. and a style that keeps the center point on the bird in motion.. as long as I do that.... it works nearly perfectly... but if you start to bounce your target out of the viewscreen... you will loose focus VERY fast.. and then its tough to get it back.. often impossible actually.. because your time is usually limited

[Marijn Heuts]

As a small side step to this:I have just received my 1D mark III back from Canon with "the fix" (great movie title btw...), but they have reset it to the default CF settings. I cannot remember what settings I used before, so this may be a good time to consider the CF settings again.Could some of you share their current CF settings (mainly the AF ones of course) for BIF and non BIF? I do have Artie's MkIII guide, but it is months old and maybe his (and others') preferences and insights have changed over time?Also Jim (Neiger), could you elaborate (again) some more on your famous "bumping" technique?Thanks!

[Jim Neiger]

If the advertised purpose of the extra AF points is to help with rapidly moving subjects (BIF) or to assist with composition, doesn't it defeat the purpose by limiting shooting technique to single center point AF?

TonyQ

Hi Tony,

There are many uses for multiple AF points, but in the case of BIF against a varied bg, they are not as useful as center point only. When you have a varied bg, the camera does not know what the intended subject is, so it may focus on the bg instead of the BIF. Using only the center af point gives you more precise control. Multiple af points work well when bif are flying against a smotth sky bg, but sky is not my bg of choice. Photographing BIF can be very difficult and complicated. That is why I am able to make a living teaching others how to do it. Photgraphing birds against a varied bg is much, much more difficult than against a sky bg.
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[Jim Neiger]

As a small side step to this:I have just received my 1D mark III back from Canon with "the fix" (great movie title btw...), but they have reset it to the default CF settings. I cannot remember what settings I used before, so this may be a good time to consider the CF settings again.Could some of you share their current CF settings (mainly the AF ones of course) for BIF and non BIF? I do have Artie's MkIII guide, but it is months old and maybe his (and others') preferences and insights have changed over time?Also Jim (Neiger), could you elaborate (again) some more on your famous "bumping" technique?Thanks!

Hi Marijn,

There are three different uses for the bump focus technique. I will try to explain each of them below. By bumping I simply mean letting off the focus and then refocusing quickly.

1. The first reason to bump the focus is to prefocus. The first task when photographing a BIF is to aquire it in the viewfinder and focus on it. It is beneficial to be able to do this as quickly as possible. When using long focal lengths, the bird may be so out of focus that you can't see it in the viewfinder even if it's there. Then when you do get it in the viewfinder it may take much longer to focus on it if the foicus is set to a drastically different distance. To overcome these issues, I will prefocus at the approximate distance that I anticipate for my subject. Then when the subject arrives, I can find it and focus on it quickly. I prefocus the camera by pointing the camera at something at the desired distance and then I focus on it. Now I'm ready for a BIF at a similar distance. If I need to switch the distance I will simply point the camera at something at the new distance and bump the focus. This will prefocus the camera at the new distance. Photogs that use a tripod will often prefocus manualy. Since manual focus is difficult hand held with big glass, I use the bump to prefocus.

2. When I am tracking a BIF against a varied bg and I miss and focus on the bg I will bump the focus to quickly return focus to the bird. Bumping the focus overrides the delay set by the tracking sensitivity custom function. Iset this tracking sensitivity to slow to get thelongest delay possible. This heelps when you are focused on the bird and want to avoid focusing on the bg, but it hurts when focussed onm the bg and you wantg to return focus to the bird. Bumping the focus overrides the delay.

3. This is the most important use of the bump technique. Most photogs will aquire focus on a bif and then try to continously maintain foucs while they are tracking and watching the bif in the viewfinder. They tend to focus continuosly waiting for the moment they wish to make a photograph. Often while watching, tracking, and waiting for the moment, the photographer will miss and focus on the bg. This is extremely easy to do when the bif is flying against a varied bg. This is the reason it is so much more difficult to photograph BIF against a varied bg as opposed to smooth sky bg. When the focus grabs the bg, then the photographer needs to re-aquire focus on the bif. This may take too much time causing the photog to miss the critical moment. I try to avoid this by only focusing on the BIF when I'm sure I'm on target and during the critical moments when I'm acualy making images. So, what I will typicaly do is aquire the bif initial and focus on it. Then I will let off the focus and just watch it in the viewfinder while tracking it visualy only. As the distance changes, the BIF will start to go out of focus. When that happens I bring it back in focus by quickly making sure the AF point is on the biurd and then I bump the focus to get it in focus again. I do this repeatedly as I'm visualy tracking the bird. When the BIF gets to the spot I want to start making pictures, I wil focus and shoot all at once. I shoot in short controlled bursts trying to time the critical moments with the best wing positions, etc. Because I have bumped the focus along, the focus is very close to where it needs to be when the moment to make pictures arrives. Then when I focus and trip the shutter it happens very quickly. If I tried to focus constantly while the bif approached I would likely miss, focus on the bg, and miss the critical moment. My goal is to keep the bird close to in focus and in the viewfinder without focusing on the bg and to do this up until the critical moment arrives. Then I try to maintain the focus while making great pictures. Bumping takes lots of practice, but if you develop this skill, it will make your keeper rate go way up.

[Steve Roman]

Agree that some FIXED camera's still have issues but those with new Blue Dot examples are getting great reviews... A fix is only as good as the person that carries it out.....

Blue Dot (NEW) 1D MKIII's are good to go :)

I don't know that this is true and not just internet hype. Do you have some statistical evidence to back this up? Some of all cameras manufactured have issues.

[Nonda Surratt]

I'll wade in and coming from a 20-30D's you can take what I say with a pinch of salt. I bought my M3 in Sept knowing full well it had issues and I did have 14 days to return it. No I'm not wealthy, but I don't make my living with a camera either, hubby said ya want it get it so whats a girl to do?;)

Within that period of time I knew it wasn't quite up to where I thought it should be from hearing about the M2n. That said the image files were just beautiful and I was having more fun with that camera that I ever thought possible, worts and all.

What I found was at times images just didn't have the sharpness that the 30D had, basing this on my skill level and images that I know I can nail. I did not all of a sudden expect my tracking skills to improve:) Also because the M3 acquired AF so fast I was able to pick up on wood ducks that came blasting out of cover,something I have never been able to do, and mine has never jumped to the background.

Firmware 1.1.3 did wonders, real wonders and I wasn't expecting much more from 'the fix',I was way wrong!!! The first time I took it out for some BIF practice I was stunned, it locked it stayed like a rock and all I could think of was WOW this is what a 1D is about what JOY! No my tracking skills still haven't improved, I'm working on it,but it all seemed to get a bit easier.

So on the 8th I locked onto some geese (3 in the group) getting ready to take off and when they started the water walk I fired 22 frames with 2 that were OOF and with both it was because I got ahead of my subject. Probably not great shakes to most of you on this list but for my skill level it was quite the feat:D

[Marijn Heuts]

Jim, thanks very much for taking the time to write this extensive reply, much appreciated!!

[Ed Cordes]

The report from RG indicated that AF in bright conditions was still an issue. What is the feedback from you guys RE this? Does the camera still have issues in bright light?

[Jim Neiger]

The report from RG indicated that AF in bright conditions was still an issue. What is the feedback from you guys RE this? Does the camera still have issues in bright light?

I have the pre-fix 1D3 and have had it since July 1, 2007. I live in Florida and shoot in very warm bright conditions on a regular basis. I have never had a problem with the AF. The 1D3 has outperformed my 1D2N from day 1. On Friday, I sent my 1D3 in for the fix even though it doesn't seem to need it. I used my 1D2N after sending it in and I was very frustrated at times because the Af just wasn't as good as on the 1D3. The 1D3 is by far the best camera I have used.

[Don Kates]

I second what Jim just said. Prior to the fix, I had a few problems in bright light, warm conditions; but after the fix I have not had any problems whatsoever.

[Stuart Dahne]

My 1D MkIII has been back to Canon twice! The last time they did the entire mirror fix.... ya di da di da and the AI Servo still cant lock in on a bird! This past weekend I finally got so disgusted that I took some bread down to the marina and began to feed the gulls. I had the 100-400 and the 70-200 f/2.8 IS. The birds were close so I used the 70-200 and the shooting couldn't have been any easier! It was about 40-50 degrees out with sunshine and blue skies and at best I had a 20% in focus ratio on any given burst. I tried everything from Artie's settings that I got from his publication to factory settings to my own settings and nothing seemed to work. I contacted the Supervisors that I had dealt with from Canon and left messages and also contacted the shop that I bought it from. The shop actually came through with an authorization from Canon to replace my camera. Today i got an e-mail from the supervisor in the repair division that he wanted me to send my camera, lens, and images back to Canon again! Maybe I am way out in left field but for this kind of money I want a product that works, if they want to "refurbish" this camera, let someone else buy it at a reduced price! Soooooo, I will let you know more when my new camera gets here.

[Pete Woods]

If the shop have the authority to change it I would not bother sending it back to Canon, get it changed ASAP.