Gull ID help, what fun?

[Dan Brown]

I think that this is a 2nd cycle Herring Gull but I'm not sure. I shot 2 other images that clearly show pink legs and not so clearly show a terminal band on the tail. Ok, gull people, please chime in:).

[Ilija Dukovski]

Oh, man. Please, no Gulls after midnight!
I assume the bird is Herring Gull size. Very pale bird.
Bill 2nd winter. Primaries streaked with pale and almost light brown,
not solid dark brown. I would suggest take a look at Thayer's Gull in Sibley
(2nd winter) and compare with Herring and let us know what you think.

Cheers, Ilija

[Ilija Dukovski]

Here are photos of a Thayer's that is currently present at Plum Island MA.
This bird is 1st year, but nevertheless it is useful to compare with your 2nd year
bird since the pale streaking on the primaries is very prominent.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jrtrimble

I hope this helps.
What a fun! It can't get better than imm. gull ID.

Cheers, Ilija

[Dan Brown]

Thanks Ilija. I am leaning heavily towards 2nd cycle Thayers now! The bill seems to fit and according to Sibleys, this would be an average toned 2nd cycle. I couldn't compare this bird with others because I didn't see it on the ground. It flew past me and into the distance and gone!

[Wayne Richardson]

Hi Dan

Jizz looks good for a California Gull & plumage suggests an older immature bird, ie 2nd or 3rd year bird. I understand only juveniles & adults can be aged with certainty.

Cheers: Wayne

[Dan Brown]

Man! we are all over the field guide with this one!:eek: Here is another shot showing the pink legs/feet. I don't think that Cal. Gull has pink legs. If that is a fact, then Cal. Gull is out and maybe Glaucous Gull or Thayers Gull are in. In the first post, the primary tips are dark, which should rule out Glaucous Gull? Maybe a hybrid? Like I stated, "what fun".

[Wayne Richardson]

Here is another shot showing the pink legs/feet. I don't think that Cal. Gull has pink legs. If that is a fact, then Cal. Gull is out

Hi Dan

Gulls of Europe, Asia & N America states 'Leg colour variable (for immature Cal' Gull) ranging from yellow to grey with greenish or bluish tinge to fleshy'.

If we look at the ID contenders in more detail:


Glaucous is complete non-runner IMO as they have pale primaries at all ages;
Thayer's have bright 'bubble-gum' pink legs &, perhaps more importantly, they don't have a solid 'all dark' tail in either 2nd or 3rd year plumage;
An Am Herring, showing the extent of grey coverts on upper wing of this bird, would have to be in its 3rd year & (if so) would have pale eyes.
The bird in your posts has a relatively slim bill on a rather small head. These are classic Cal' Gull features, so I'm still sticking with my original suggestion. :cool:

Cheers: Wayne

[Dan Brown]

Wayne, Thanks very much for your input on this guy! I have posted this question on a local birding listserve and almost all have called the bird a 2nd cycle Herring. Some of these individuals are, IMO, local experts. I do not know enough about the finer points of gull ID (obviously or I wouldn't be asking for help:)) to disagree with
these calls or with your call, but I have included a blowup of the legs/feet from the last post which looks to me to show pink (not bubble gum pink) color. Do you think that this color would be possible for Cal. Gull?

PS, the leg color seems to loose saturation when posted here? In photoshop, the pink looks pink!

[Richard Stern]

The bill color would do very nicely for a 1st or 2nd cycle Glaucous, but the bill doesn't seem hefty enough to me. Other than the legs being a bit on the pink side everything else is consistent with a 2nd c. California Gull, including the rather dainty head and bill. Glaucous regularly hybridizes with Herring to produce "Nelson's Gull", but that usually has the massive bill of a Glaucous, although it's a possibility here. I think I'd still go with California though. Definitely not a pure Glaucous, which would have white primaries. I agree, Gull ID is such fun - I once went to a Gull ID conference at Niagara Fall, where it was neat to see well-known experts arguing vehemently about the IDs of both Gulls that were on the river in front of us, and slides at the evening quiz sessions, and usually agreeing to disagree!

Richard
Richard

[Chris Sloan]

All-
This is not a California Gull; the structure is entirely wrong. California Gull is a medium-small, slender-looking bird. This one is a beast. It's also not a Thayer's Gull for similar reasons, in addition to the primary pattern being wrong.

My first reaction was that this is a very bleached second-year Herring Gull, but I'm also wondering about the possibility of a Western x Glaucous-wing hybrid. I'll have to study it some more late.r

[Chris Sloan]

Forgot to add: the primary pattern also eliminates Glaucous Gull.