Please ID??

[Sue Thomson]

I was at the Chichester Wetlands today. If Mac's bird is a female RWB, is this one, too??? At first I thought it was, but then I seemed to have talked myself out of that and started looking at others ...


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4021.jpg


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4018.jpg

I thought of a few others - like the Yellow-rumped Warbler, which I know is at Chichester, but I figured it was a tad early for them.

I saw robins, RWB, many ducks and Canada Geese, California Quail, Juncos and BB Magpies there today - and this one - whatever it is :D

BTW - My grandson said he saw a hummingbird last weekend in the Grand Forks, BC area. I hung my feeder out this morning - just in case they are really early this year!!! If they are there, they will be here, too.

Thanks!

Cheers,
Sue
http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4021.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

[Ilija Dukovski]

My goodness Sue, this one confusing bird. It is not a RWBB
but a Fox Sparrow. These guys come in several color
variations (races). The eastern ones are very rufous,
hence the name. The NW ones have purely gray head.
I've never seen the western ones but according to Sibley
yours seems to be an intermediate i.e. a mix of the two,
and can be found only where you live (Canadian Rockies)
and not many places else. You've got yourself quite
a special bird. Again, I'm just quoting Sibley, never seen
the western races of Fox Sparrow. Let's hope somebody
with more experience with the western races will answer
your post.

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Holy Moly!!!

Really???????? A Fox Sparrow??? That would be sooo cool!

I got 5 shots of him/her before it flew away (I got too close!) Here's the rest:

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4019.jpg


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4020.jpg


http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4022.jpg

Maybe more will help???

I discounted the sparrow family because he was quite a bit bigger than what I am used to at my feeders. In my Petereson's it says the Fox is bigger, so that makes sense.

I am not in the Rockies ... does that matter? I am in the Okanagan Valley in Kelowna. This bird was at a local wetlands today with the RW Blackbirds, California Quail, assorted ducks and geese, Magpies, robins and Juncos.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-PICT4015.jpg

I think Spring has sprung!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Ilija - hopefully more ppl will stop in and offer an opinion, as well.

Cheers,
Sue

[Sue Thomson]

I want to edit - I spelled "Peterson's" wrong. Please, may I have my edit button changed??? I can't live without an "edit button" !!!! Help!

[Ilija Dukovski]

I did a bit of more careful research and it turns out
that the Alaskan and NW Song Sparrows are quite close
to your bird. Grey birds with rufous streaking.
Might be the M. m. rufina race of Song sparrow.

The Little Brown Jobs are not easy
to ID. Especially from such a distance :)

Cheers, Ilija

[Ilija Dukovski]

These last photos help a lot.
Look at the beak. It is gray, without
any yellow. Fox sparrows have yellow on the
lower mandible. I stand corrected, this seems
to be a NW race of the good old Song Sparrow.

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Thanks, Ilija - I have been looking around now, too, since you have given me a starting point :D

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/BirdGuide/Fox_Sparrow_dtl.html

Excerpt from that link:


The slate-colored form has a gray back and reddish wings, as well as a longer, reddish tail. It breeds from central British Columbia to Nevada and Colorado, and winters in the arid Southwest.

When I first saw this bird (the song attracted me to it), it struck me that it was a gray bird, as opposed to a brown bird. It also had a longer tail, which is another reason I was not thinking in the sparrow family.

I am excited - will be going back there tomorrow now, for sure! I'll take the better camera and the big lens - today I just popped in there on my way home from picking up seed for my feeders and just had the Minolta DiMage Z5 - it has a 12x zoom and seems to track and focus faster than the D70. I think I have worn out the D70 :( - over 80,000 images on it. The Z5 devours batteries and they ran out on me today - sheesh! There was heaps of good shooting and I didn't even have spares in my pocket.

Thanks you, Ilija!

Cheers,
Sue

[Sue Thomson]

A Song Sparrow? I get them at my feeders all the time! This bird was bigger than that by quite a bit. Hmmmmmmm - and grayer than the ones I have at the house. My Song Sparrows are smaller than my House Sparrows, usually.

Here's my Song Sparrow ...

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/2008-12-21-DSC_4521.jpg

I will go have a Cornell look at Song Sparrows now (I think I have done that before, but a refresher is a good thing :D)

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Sorry to disappoint you but you can read on the same site
about the Song Sparrow:

"...those in the Pacific Northwest are dark and heavily streaked. The sparrows found on the Aleutian Islands of Alaska are even darker, and are huge: one-third longer than the eastern birds, and weighing twice as much."

So it seems that you might have a northern visitor wintering in your valley.
In any case it is very interesting bird and very much worth taking a photo.


Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Well, I must admit I liked him much better as a Fox Sparrow ......... would be a new one for my list :(

Any idea how come he doesn't have that dark splotch on his chest?? That's my marker for a Song one.

Thank you, Ilija.

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Sue,

This is getting really serious :) How large was the bird?
This is what I found on http://www.avianweb.com/songsparrows.html

Melospiza melodia maxima <small>Gabrielson and Lincoln, 1951</small>. W Aleutian Islands (Attu to Atka Island), resident. The largest subspecies (about the size of the California Towhee (http://www.avianweb.com/californiatowhees.html)). Very gray overall, long, diffuse streaks. Bill long and slender.

It does not make sense to find it in your place so it might be quite a rarity.
We need an expert on NW birds to give us a positive ID.

Keep searching!

Can I copy your photo and post it to birding forums, please?
Also please can you confirm the size of the bird?

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Well, it was almost as big as my male Brown-headed Cowbirds that I get later in the year, but not quite. It was considerably larger than my Song Sparrows, and even bigger than my House Sparrows. I have the original pics of it in the tree - these ones I posted are crops from those larger ones. I will post one of the pics that perhaps will give you a better idea of the size of this bird.

Be right back - gotta find them and resize them a bit for here ...

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Here's a list of possible candidates:


Melospiza melodia maxima <small>Gabrielson and Lincoln, 1951</small>. W Aleutian Islands (Attu to Atka Island), resident. The largest subspecies (about the size of the California Towhee (http://www.avianweb.com/californiatowhees.html)). Very gray overall, long, diffuse streaks. Bill long and slender.
Melospiza melodia sanaka <small>McGregor, 1901</small>. Aleutians from Seguam Island east to Stepovak Bay, Alaska, and islands to the south of Alaskan Peninsula; resident. Similar to maxima; grayer still and bill even more slender. Includes the possibly distinct M. m. semidiensis <small>Brooks, 1919</small> and the population from Amak Island (Pruett et al., 2004) named M. m. amaka <small>Gabrielson and Lincoln, 1951</small> which was extirpated due to habitat destruction, apparently disappearing in the weeks around New Year's Eve, 1980/1981 (there were unconfirmed sightings in 1987 and 1988).
Melospiza melodia insignis <small>Baird, 1869</small>. Kodiak Islands and Kukak and Katmai on Alaska Peninsula; many migrate south in winter. A darkish grey, medium-sized form

the last one migrates south in winter so it is possibly your bird. Keep searching:)

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Okay - am back ...

Here's my original files before I cropped them.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-large-PICT4019.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/grammafreddy/birds/1-large-PICT4021.jpg


Does that help give you some idea of the size??

About posting these pics to another birding site ... ummm ... I am a little uncomfy about that. I would prefer if you would point me to them and perhaps I could post them there myself??? Thanks :D

I will check out those suggestions you just gave me. Thanks. I appreciate your help.

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Here's a photo taken in BC in 1988:

http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid={7AF3F082-538E-48BB-9249-0F0559374898} (http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isg&mediauid=%7B7AF3F082-538E-48BB-9249-0F0559374898%7D)

What do you think? Definitely not your backyard Song Sparrow:)
Apparently some of the gray races can be found in BC.
Still I would like to positively ID this bird. If it was cowbird-size it was quite large bird.
Considering that cowbirds have relatively short tail your bird might be 8'' or more.
This comes close to California Towhee size as described on the Cornell site.
It might be one of the northern sub-species.

If you are OK with it I can post it on birding sites and get expert opinion.

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Hmmmm ... definitely not my Song Sparrow and definitely not my bird from Chichester today, either.

Did my larger uncropped pics help at all?

Size-wise, I'd say it was between 7-8 inches but not as large as a Towhee, I don't think. They are about 9 inches, if I remember correctly.

Okay - sure - post it (with my credit, please) and please give me a link to the sites you post it on so I can track the conversations, too. Thanks!

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Here's the link to the site:

http://www.vicnhs.bc.ca/rarebird.html
(http://www.vicnhs.bc.ca/rarebird.html)
Please note the RBA email link on the top of the page. Just send them the photo.

Cheers, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

Thank you, Ilija, for that link. I clicked on the email link and it doesn't seem to take me anywhere. I'll do a search on them and see what I can find for an email address.

Still curious as to what this bird is :D Am not saying Song Sparrow is wrong, but it sure is bigger than my usual around these parts.

I'll go back there today and see if I can find it again. At this time of year, it could be just passing through.

Cheers,
Sue

[Sue Thomson]

Well, today the link works ... go figure!!?? I sent them a link to this thread. Thank you.

Cheers,
Me again :D

[Ilija Dukovski]

Sounds good to me,
I'm very curious to find out...

Regards, Ilija

[Sue Thomson]

I have received two responses ...

From Rick Schortinghuis (shylo@islandnet.com) at Victoria Natural History Society http://vicnhs.bc.ca/

Hi Sue<o></o>
The bird is a Song Sparrow. Thanks for your inquiry.<o></o>
Rick<o></o>


and also:

Hello, Sue:

I have been asked to respond to your query about a sparrow you photographed in Kelowna. You have been getting some remarkable suggestions from your correspondents! The bird is actually a Song Sparrow. Among many other indications, the Fox Sparrow has a plain, unstreaked crown. There are many other indications, but the streaks on the crown immediately rule out the Fox. Nice photos, nevertheless - well done!

Jeremy Tatum
Editor, Annual Bird Report for Southern Vancouver Island



So, once again, thank you, Ilija, for all your help. I sure do appreciate it.

(I'd rather be adding a Fox Sparrow to my list, though :D)

Cheers,
Sue

[Ilija Dukovski]

Well, OK we got it straight. At one point I thought we had an Aleutian Song Sparrow.
On any case it is such great fun IDing the sparrows and other LBJ's.

Cheers, Ilija