Artist Wants My Photo

[Peggy Collins]

I'm new to this forum and looking forward to joining in. I've been contacted by a wildlife artist who has asked what I'd charge for my photos to use as references for his paintings. He's interested in one particular image at this time. He'd like to use it as a reference for a painting that he will submit to a postage stamp contest...something he does regularly. Any ideas on what I should charge him for this usage? BTW, I happen to know a lot of artists and this question has come up before. In this case they were asking for permission to use my photograph as a reference for paintings that they would put up for sale. Also, I read on this site about PLUS being used to generate a license agreement. I couldn't really find an appropriate category for this type of usage. "Personal usage" was as close as I could come. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

[mikeojohnson]

I charge 10% of the sale price of the painting.
Mike

[Ed Cordes]

Artists have a habit of using images for their paintings/drawings. It is nice when they ask as they don't always. If the piece they create is for sale I agree with Mike - 10% of the sale price. If it is for personal use I usually don't charge at all I do require image credit however. In your postage stamp case I would ask for a percentage of what ever the prize is as well as image credit.

As an aside, if you didn't demand image credit you are not protecting you image rights. This could allow someone to claim that you have given up your rights to the image in the future. If you are vigilant about protecting your copyright you will demonstrate that you maintain your copyright to the image and wish to continue it.

[Ian McHenry]

I have several good people who I have authorised to paint my images.
I have a close look at each applicant and if satisfied do not take any fee but do ask that they send me a copy of completed work which if I like I will print for my own interest.
Do keep tabs on each artist though !!!
Would be happy to post a painting version of an image to this thread if permitted.
Cheers: Ian Mc

[Jim Poor]

I charge 10% of the sale price of the painting.

What if there are to be multiple copies painted? Do you account for that too?

[Peggy Collins]

Regarding taking 10% of the painting's sale price...would that be 10% after the artist has paid the gallery commission? And maybe I'm looking for problems, but I'm assuming most artists don't know how much they'll charge for a painting until they finish it but I have to come up with a price for my photo before they even start the painting. @ Ed...I haven't responded to this person's enquiry yet, and haven't given away any rights. I'm just not sure which category this stamp artist would come under regarding license agreements since he wouldn't be reproducing my photograph anywhere. Thanks for your help!

[mikeojohnson]

I should preface this by stating that I don't do a lot of this, so am probably not the most authoritative source.
But, here is how I do it:
If the requester is a non-profit, I will usually grant a non-exclusive license that is for the specific purpose requested. The terms are specific and spelled out in the email exchange. I retain all rights to the image. I will grant these licenses for free to non-profits (assuming I can align with the organization's purpose).

if the user will be making a profit from the use of my image I negotiate a fee. I also grant a non-exclusive license for the specific purpose and retain all rights to the image (if they want an exclusive license so I can't use it again the fee would be higher). In the case of a painting I try to get 10% of the selling price (defined however you wish - gross or net of commissions). If the painter wishes to make prints from the painting I negotiate a separate license, also specific to the number of prints, price, etc. In most cases my fee has been a print.

If the selling price is unknown at the time of the license I ask the user to settle up when the item is sold.

Here is an example of a painter licensing my image: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330296616609&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123

As to a credit, I negotiate that on a case by case basis. Typically, non-profits will willingly give you a credit. I haven't required this for paintings.

Hope this helps.

Mike

[Peggy Collins]

Thanks, Mike, that's very helpful. I had a look at your leopard photo (fantastic!) and the painting too...he did a great job with it, which must make you happy. By the way, do you check out the quality of an artist's work before dealing with him or her?

[mikeojohnson]

Thanks for the compliment.

I do check on any prospective painters as best I can.
Mike

[Fabs Forns]

I had a very bad experience with a waterfowl artist, who wanted to buy my picture and asked for large copy to decide if he'd buy or not. Never herd from him. When contacted, he told he was still thinking about it.
I was deceived into giving him my work for free. I need to check his website to make sure he didn't use it.

[Jim Neiger]

Peggy,

Here is my 2 cents worth. First, I think you need to dfetermine if the artist wants to use your photo for a reference or a rendering. By rendering I mean that the artist will create a painting or other artwork that is nearly the same as your photo. Someone looking at the artist's work and your photo could clearly tell that the work was created using the photo. This would not be true for a reference work. Renderings should receive a much higher fee than a reference. Then I would look at the likely income the artist could expect to receive their work(s) that are derived from your photo. I would charge 10% or so for a rendering, lowering that as the price increases. For example if a sculture was rendered from my photo and the sculpture sold for $250,000, I wouldn't charge 10% ($25,000), I would charge something more reasonable like $7500. A reference for the same work I would charge something like $500. Determining how much an artist is likely to make from their work is not easy. I would start by researching the artist's past works and prices if possible. I would also ask the artist what they expect to make from the work(s). If the artist's likely income from the work is not possible to determine, I would charge a small fee, whatever I decide is the minimum for my efforts. Probably something like $150. I have received a fee of $350 for a photo in the past and have bid $500 for a large sculpture reference that was turned down by the artist. If your price is too high, you will not make the sale. Try not to paint yourself into a corner when negotiating. The invoice/ontract should spell out the limited rights the artist will receive to use your photo. It should also define reference work vs rendering work. This is a tricky area for pricing your image and the artist can steal your work quite easily if they choose to. Good luck.

[Peggy Collins]

Thanks for your input, Jim. You make some very good points. I'd never even considered the "rendering" vs. "reference" issue. It seems like I have my homework cut out for me. Thanks to everyone for your detailed responses...you've helped a lot.

[mikeojohnson]

If you want to get more deeply into intellectual property rights for photographers check with Carolyn Wright, a lawyer who is a member and has written extensively on the subject.
Mike