Black-eyed Susan #2

[Ed Vatza]

From the past weekend at Jacobsburg State Park (PA).

Early morning conditions: sunny, hot and humid

Canon Rebel XT; Sigma 150mm Macro lens; tripod-mounted with Novoflex focusing rail.

1/100 sec at f/16; ISO 800; 0 EV; used natural light for this one.

[Robert O'Toole]

Nice light, nice DOF balance. I also like the side angle view.

The image looks a little dark. I think the image is cropped a little too tight for me, I try for 2/3rds as a max size. Also looks like there is a little cast in the image, maybe green. Oh and lastly the image has a CW tilt or lean.

Robert

[Julie Kenward]

It does look a tad green but I love the tilt! I think it adds to the whimsy of the image. I do agree that it is a tad bit on the dark side but you can still make out detail in the center area so maybe just a slight levels adjustment?

[Ed Vatza]

First off a big thank you to both of you, Robert and Julie, for you critiques. I've said it before and I'll say it again - they are much appreciated. I don't often get a chance to enter into a dialog regarding my images and I don't know if you will check back but I'd like to share my thoughts and observations.


The image looks a little dark.

This is no doubt the result of me being me. I have a nasty habit of preferring things on the dark side and every once in a while (maybe more) I go overboard. I did play with the shadows a bit (the blacks in LR) to darken the image a bit. Why? Because I like a dark green background for a yellow flower. I like the color contrast that occurs. And in this case, I really liked the buttery yellow of BES petals. Could I back off a little? Certainly.

Actually I have another image that I may post tomorrow morning where I went the opposite direction and, quite frankly, it scares me every time I look at it. But others I have showed it to really like it.


I think the image is cropped a little too tight for me, I try for 2/3rds as a max size.

I know we have gone round on this before. And it is another personal thing. That doesn't necessarily make it right, though. Every once in a while, particularly with a larger flower like the BES, I like to fill the frame right in the camera. That's what I did here. I did it on purpose because I like it. I ran it by a mini-focus group at work today and my group seemed to like it as well. I don't know what's right here or if there is a right. I just know that I like to push it to edges of the frame every now and then. You'll note I don't do it often.


Also looks like there is a little cast in the image, maybe green.

Mea Culpa. I was playing around in LR and PS a bit more than usual and went a bit to far. I can certainly back off. I need to order those CDs Robert. Invariably the more I try to do in PP, the more trouble I get myself into.


Oh and lastly the image has a CW tilt or lean.

Julie sorta hit it on the head. The tilt was on purpose. I didn't want a perfectly flat/level, centered flower in the frame. On the other hand, I didn't want the flower running from UL to LR either. So I tilted the camera slightly to try to combat the centeredness issue and, to use Julie's word. create a bit of whimsy or interest. Maybe I should have tilted a little more to make it look more purposeful.


I am open to any comments on any of this. I am still trying to learn as much as I can.

Again thanks.

[Julie Kenward]

Ed, I applaud your trying new things and wanting to consistently take your images where YOU want them to go. Please always remember that critiques are a great way to see past our own noses but it is your nose that counts because it is your image!

That said...

I like dark images myself...and fight the urge to tell others theirs are too light all the time! However, it is a bit difficult to stay a monitor's distance from this and really see the distinct details in the center brown portion and that was my thinking on why the image is dark. It has nothing to do with the deep forest-colored BG or the way it plays off the yellows...those are scrumptous together! However, a slight tweak up and I bet you'd have the best of both worlds.

I knew the tilt was on purpose because 1) you GET flowers and 2) you are too good at post processing to leave this undone if you felt it was wrong. I believe flowers are best photographed when we assign emotion to them and daisies are nothing if not whimsical. Had this been an off-tilted rose with it's straight-laced attitude, I probably would have questioned you about your choice of angles.

I can't wait to see the lighter image...it's always scary to jump outside our comfort box but its the only way to grow so throw caution to the wind and post away!

[Ed Vatza]

Please always remember that critiques are a great way to see past our own noses but it is your nose that counts because it is your image!

...

I can't wait to see the lighter image...it's always scary to jump outside our comfort box but its the only way to grow so throw caution to the wind and post away!

Hello again Julie,

I love the feedback/critiques and use them just the way you have suggested. They have been instrumental in my development over the last six months or so. They serve as a sounding board against which I can evaluate what I was trying to do. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

That's what I like about BPN. Every comment is helpful and they're not just fluff.

I may just post that "lighter" image in the morning. Look for an Evening Primrose. I'm not sure what kind of title I'll come up with but it won't be hard to find. :D

[Robert O'Toole]

This is no doubt the result of me being me. I have a nasty habit of preferring things on the dark side and every once in a while (maybe more) I go overboard. I did play with the shadows a bit (the blacks in LR) to darken the image a bit. Why? Because I like a dark green background for a yellow flower. I like the color contrast that occurs. And in this case, I really liked the buttery yellow of BES petals. Could I back off a little? Certainly.

There is no right or wrong in nature photography. Every photographer and every viewer has their own ideas and tastes. That is what make this forum great. This forum is designed for people to learn from others, be exposed to new techniques / ideas and to help people improve their art. That said you might want to state that you displayed the image dark for an effect. Otherwise people like me will tell you I think the image is too dark everytime.




Actually I have another image that I may post tomorrow morning where I went the opposite direction and, quite frankly, it scares me every time I look at it. But others I have showed it to really like it.



Cool, cant wait to see it :^)




I know we have gone round on this before. And it is another personal thing. That doesn't necessarily make it right, though. Every once in a while, particularly with a larger flower like the BES, I like to fill the frame right in the camera. That's what I did here. I did it on purpose because I like it. I ran it by a mini-focus group at work today and my group seemed to like it as well. I don't know what's right here or if there is a right. I just know that I like to push it to edges of the frame every now and then. You'll note I don't do it often.



Well I also prefer to crop in camera but be careful. Too tight of a crop will look confining.
Getting a good sized image in the frame is one thing but you will find its easy to do a final crop later but its very difficult to add space if you need to, like in the instance of a image sale for a magazine cover.
For the last 5 years I have been leading and co-leading workshop tours and the last 3 have been year round. So I can tell you from experience that it is better to back off a little you will appreciate it later. I see the "too tight in the frame" syndrome everyday. It is most common with people that just purchased a 500 or 600 for the first time and set out to fill every frame top to bottom.
Also for wildlife images you really want to avoid the tight crop urge to avoid cut wings and legs in the case of a wing stretch or a defensive threat display or if another subject flies or crawls into the frame.
Trust me.




Mea Culpa. I was playing around in LR and PS a bit more than usual and went a bit to far. I can certainly back off. I need to order those CDs Robert. Invariably the more I try to do in PP, the more trouble I get myself into.



You have made such an improvement this year Ed, you are doing a superb job really. You will get to learn processing fine points in no time. You have such an excellent attitude and great desire to learn new things you will succeed.




Julie sorta hit it on the head. The tilt was on purpose. I didn't want a perfectly flat/level, centered flower in the frame. On the other hand, I didn't want the flower running from UL to LR either. So I tilted the camera slightly to try to combat the centeredness issue and, to use Julie's word. create a bit of whimsy or interest. Maybe I should have tilted a little more to make it look more purposeful.



It always look better to have at least one element level if it is just slightly off the whole image will look "off". You are right, it would look much better to have the stem/bloom at more of a diagonal. I know its hard especially since not many elements in nature are level or perfectly vertical. But we are talking about an image on display so usually you want to make the image as pleasing as possible with any issues that bring attention to it to where it becomes a distraction. Something is beautiful to the human eye because humans are all hardwired to subconsciously follow the golden rule, space, and symmetry no matter if you as a viewer are conscious of it or not.


Robert

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hi All,
As you all know.........I'm usually in the tight crop school ...........but even I would like to see a bit of room right and left........maybe not the 2/3's Robert wants..........but still a bit more. As for the lean........i would have wanted more!!!
3 mods...........3 different opinions and 1 original vision by you. I have seen your photography improve in the past couple of months and see that you are definitely listening and growing. If anything these opinions offer it's a chance for you to maybe think of them in the field while composing and trying them out. What's the worst thing that happens??? You hit the delete button..........as Mike Moats says..........megs are free! or was it pixels???

[Ed Vatza]

3 mods...........3 different opinions and 1 original vision by you... If anything these opinions offer it's a chance for you to maybe think of them in the field while composing and trying them out.

I do, Roman. Believe me I do. As I was making these images I kept thinking - Robert's gonna give me @#$% for this! Hey, I was right! :D:D:D;)

And know what? I did make some images giving the flower more room, not a lot more, but definitely more. They were, for the most part, at f/4 and 5.6 but I made them!

God, I love BPN!