Not on my tree Buddy!!

[Oscar Zangroniz]

From the Long Key Rookery this past weekend.

Nikon D300
Sigma 150-500mm
Focal Length: 500mm
Shutter speed: 1/2500 sec
Aperture: 8
Exposure mode: Av
Exposure compensation: -2/3
Flash: Off
Metering mode: Multi-segment
ISO: 400


C&C are always welcome and appreciated.
Thank you.

[Alberto Oria]

:DLove the title:D, Great dynamics, how did you get them to pose for you?;).
The right one was a little fuzzy but over all it's a very clear and detailed image. The two left birds were very sharp; they had good, strong expressions. The picture expresses the bird's behavior and interactions very well.

[Gus Cobos]

Nicely done Oscar,
I love the action here...congrats on the capture. I would crop just a tad from the bottom to cut out some of the green branches, this way you concentrate on the main subjects...all in all, well done...congrats...:cool:

[Nicki Gwynn Jones]

Hi Oscar! Great action shot - would also crop some off the bottom.

[Alfred Forns]

Hi Oscar Great action and what a mess of birds !!! I think the Juvi Tries are the most agressive of all !!!

For rookeries I would set up a good sun angle and stay there If action crops up away from intended area just ignore it Difficult but practical !! The parent is in deep shadow which always detracts. With enough focal length the image would have been the parent and juvi to the left real tight Love those two expressions !!!!

[Harold Davis]

i tried to post on this earlier but got tied up! sorry. al summed it up pretty good!! what else can i add. lots of action and lots of wings!!

[Arthur Morris]

Love the expression and the sharpness on the begging bird. In addition to the blocked dark areas, the bird in the foreground would qualify as an image-wrecker in my book.

For most of the posters above, ignoring major defects will not help anyone improve.

Did any of you seriously feel that the foreground bird added to the image in any way???

Respectfully posted.

[WIlliam Maroldo]

Authur: I was thinking the same thing about the bird in front. As a matter of fact I was wondering all day about why it wasn't mentioned. There is an elephant in the room and nobody mentions it! I agree that ignoring major defects will not help the photographer to improve his skill, and sometimes I think, although they might say that they welcome criticism, and even may think this, they may not really. Personally I take tens of thousands of bird images, and if one were to get trashed, big deal. There's plenty more where that came from. However, some people have invested thousands of dollars in equipment, spent time and money to get opportunities to take bird photos, and now someone is telling them there are big problems with his images? I think that sometimes the criticism is taken personally, and the ultimate goal of becoming a better photographer is overshadowed. Maybe not to a great extent, but it might influence attitudes toward the one doing the criticism. I really think this forum is wonderful, but often think that the members are not being critical enough. Criticism is not a bad thing!I
That being said, I really appreciate what Arthur has said about the image, and its flaws. There are other members (like Alfred) that have no problem pointing out major flaws, and positive aspects as well. Praise is good, and an image may be excellent and technically flawless, but a string of positive comments, devoid of any actual substance like exactly why the image is excellent, is worthless in my book.
Back to Oscars image. The composition is excellent. The strong triangular shape created by the element's positions makes the image dynamic. The position of the rear bird, with open mouth, looking up, is wonderful. The bird in front, being out of focus, is an image killer. ~onlybill

[Harold Davis]

i agree with the above two statements, but at the same time please remember that everyone or most of the people that are commenting here are Eager to Learn. i have always been open to having my critiques critiqued!! that's why i am here. i have often said that i get more experience by commenting and reading the comments on my comments than i do on posting a picture!

so once again thanks for the leadership and tutelage!!

[WIlliam Maroldo]

Harold: I would like to have my critiques critiqued as well. Sometimes I'll say something, possibly incorrect, and instead of someone pointing out that there are great flaws in my thinking, like"you are full of crap...and this is the reason why", there will be nothing. Just like the post wasn't there, and the general conversation continues on exactly as it was before my post. I can deal with it, and its not a major problem, and I'm probably expecting too much, but it would be nice if.....onlybill

[Harold Davis]

i hear you!! that's why i really pay close attention to what the moderators say. with so many people in this forum now, it's just about impossible for the moderators to do what we are talking about, but they do point things out at times about peoples's comments that are very beneficial. i think al does a fantastic job!!! he may even be a little overworked here!!!!!

[Oscar Zangroniz]

Authur: I was thinking the same thing about the bird in front. As a matter of fact I was wondering all day about why it wasn't mentioned. There is an elephant in the room and nobody mentions it! I agree that ignoring major defects will not help the photographer to improve his skill, and sometimes I think, although they might say that they welcome criticism, and even may think this, they may not really. Personally I take tens of thousands of bird images, and if one were to get trashed, big deal. There's plenty more where that came from. However, some people have invested thousands of dollars in equipment, spent time and money to get opportunities to take bird photos, and now someone is telling them there are big problems with his images? I think that sometimes the criticism is taken personally, and the ultimate goal of becoming a better photographer is overshadowed. Maybe not to a great extent, but it might influence attitudes toward the one doing the criticism. I really think this forum is wonderful, but often think that the members are not being critical enough. Criticism is not a bad thing!I
That being said, I really appreciate what Arthur has said about the image, and its flaws. There are other members (like Alfred) that have no problem pointing out major flaws, and positive aspects as well. Praise is good, and an image may be excellent and technically flawless, but a string of positive comments, devoid of any actual substance like exactly why the image is excellent, is worthless in my book.
Back to Oscars image. The composition is excellent. The strong triangular shape created by the element's positions makes the image dynamic. The position of the rear bird, with open mouth, looking up, is wonderful. The bird in front, being out of focus, is an image killer. ~onlybill


William, Thank you for the positives and negative you saw in my picture. Obviously I'm not as experienced as you are in critiquing photographs, but I did know that the bird in the foreground was totally out of focus. My reason for posting this pic was for the expression of the juvi bird in the background which I think is great.

As for your comments regarding the folks on this site not being more critical of pics posted, you have to realize that since we are in the Eager to Learn section of this forum, some of us are not as experienced as others in the art of critiquing photographs. Because of this I think we tend to look at the good things we see in a photograph instead of making fools of ourselves in trying to point things out that maybe Art or Alfred can see from the years of experience
and we can't from the lack of it. There are other sections in this forum where the critiques are more direct and precise, but the people who post in those sections are more experienced than the ones here.

I'm just replying to your comments not because I can't accept the critiques that have been said of any of my pics, lord knows that they need critique, but because I think that people more often learn from positives than negatives, and for myself I rather point out the good.

Again, thank you for your comments and in no way I've taken anything said here personally.
Regards,

[Amy DeStefanis]

Right, so what? you're not going to press the shutter button because the foreground bird isn't in pristine focus? I think not. It's a GREAT moment you captured. I've had those too, where no, maybe they're not "art", but yes, they are worth sharing for sure. I'm glad you shared this because I just cracked up at the expression. Sometimes photography is art - sometimes it is a way to share an experience. If ALL we're doing here is high art, then I guess this is the wrong forum for me. I think photography is more than that.

OH what a picture this would be if that foreground bird were in focus, though - an absolute sculpture. So, it didn't work out. I'm glad you shared it because it brought a smile to my face for sure!

[WIlliam Maroldo]

Oscar: I appreciate your comments greatly. You have helped put in it proper perspective, especially about the importance of both the good and bad parts of an image. The point about the Eager to Learn section is something I hadn't considered. I did like your image very much. I am more or less a novice in critiquing as well, and and I'm glad you didn't take it personally.

Amy: Hum. I am glad Oscar shared the image as well, and I think it extraordinary, but this Forum has a goal, and that is to help people become better bird photographers.When you said "you're not going to press the shutter button because the foreground bird isn't in pristine focus?", the answer is..and the point of all of this Forum, all the knowledge, the experience, the technique, the experts, the members, the people that don't know what they are taking about, the answer is NO, you are not going to press the shutter button.

So what if the bird in the front of the photograph was in focus? Oscar would have created a near flawless image, one that he should be rightly proud of, and that is of value. I don't think anyone of us should expect to create perfect images, but we can set that as a goal, and here, at BFN, we have the tools to help us at least approach this.

[Arthur Morris]

Boys and Girls, With Alfred away for a while, I have been hanging out here quite a bit over the past week. There are lots of regulars and the atmosphere is very friendly. Do understand one thing, in this image, the bird in the front is an image-wrecker. Had it been in sharp focus, it would still be an image wrecker. Why? It comes between the viewer and the action. It is a huge distraction. In addition, it is looking completely away from both the camera and the action. If you happen to like the image or are glad that Oscar shared it with the group, I am fine with that. But that does not make it a good image. With the bird in front, it is simply not a strong photograph.

I will go out on a limb and state that it is highly likely that Gus (whom I know only through BPN), and Nicki, whom I have spoken with on the phone for more than a bit, are skilled enough photographers to have been bothered by the foreground bird.. So we must ask, why did they not comment on it? I am pretty sure that they were attempting to be nice. If I am wrong here, I would love to hear from Gus or from Nicki.

The purpose of this forum is to help folks improve. In my original critique, I stated what I liked about the image, and then I stated the problem. And yes, once you become more experienced you do not even think of pressing the shutter button when a foreground bird or object is blocking line of sight to the subject.

[Gail Spitler]

Thought provoking discussion, I appreciate the stimulus to think about how all of the members of ETL can help fellow members improve as photographers. That is certainly why I continue to participate and what I want to gain from my participation. I often think that perhaps I can offer more by commenting more extensively on fewer images, than giving quick, short comments on lots of images. Personally I think I gain more from longer comments and re-posts. I think they tend to stick with me.
Thanks for listening
Gail

[James Shadle]

Please remember this is a critique forum, not a showcase.
Art's comments are correct.
I remember the first time I received a less than flattering critique on an "awesome" image.
First I was mad, then sad and then I realized they were right. It made me a better photographer.

I would have deleted the image above.
But let me say this, I love the action.
Because of what I have learned over the years, much of it in critique forums, I would have tried a few more frames.
It looks like the foreground bird is trying to split. You may have other images from this series that would be more "pleasing".

If nothing else, this is a very interesting natural history image of a cool behavior.

James

[Oscar Zangroniz]

Right, so what? you're not going to press the shutter button because the foreground bird isn't in pristine focus? I think not. It's a GREAT moment you captured. I've had those too, where no, maybe they're not "art", but yes, they are worth sharing for sure. I'm glad you shared this because I just cracked up at the expression. Sometimes photography is art - sometimes it is a way to share an experience. If ALL we're doing here is high art, then I guess this is the wrong forum for me. I think photography is more than that.

OH what a picture this would be if that foreground bird were in focus, though - an absolute sculpture. So, it didn't work out. I'm glad you shared it because it brought a smile to my face for sure!


Thank you for your comments Amy. As I said before, in my short time photographing I know that this was by far not an excellent image weather the bird was in focus or not. I just felt that the expression on the background bird was hysterical and I wanted to share it with my friends that post here. And yes, given the same situation I would press the shutter again, because I was also having a great time with friends and this shot will bring back fond memories when I'm old.

Again, thank you for your comments and I'm glad my pic made you laugh.