View Full Version : Warm afternoon sun (with some help)

Wayne Niz
07-29-2021, 06:12 AM
Anticipating less than idea light conditions (too much actually) I took along a Godox AD600pro and AD200pro flashes to the field
Whiter Breasted Cormorant, Tala Game Reserve Kwa Zulu Natal, South Africa almost 4pm, bird around 30m away. The detail is unfortunately is lost in the reduced resolution but I will post a separate 100% head shot crop
600 f4 ii
TX1.4 iii
iso 500
Godox 600 full power
Godox 200 full power

Steve Kaluski
07-29-2021, 06:40 AM
Hi Wayne, a nice shot, but everything is quite dark and the shadow areas are clipped. Using a Curves adjustment pulls back some of the hidden detail plus you can add a little more in warmed it up a little, but not using Vibrance or Saturation, just in Lr.

No idea what Goddox is, but I'm a little perplexed why you use DXO, LR and Goddox, but this idea of painting around the sharpening halos is not right, as I said you must be sharpening way too much Wayne and it's not a good habit to get into. If the sharpening is correctly done, you have no halos.


Wayne Niz
07-29-2021, 07:00 AM

Wayne Niz
07-29-2021, 08:44 AM
Hey Steve,

Thanks for the comments I will take it back in LR and have a look. Sorry Godox is a brand of flash, the 600 is a 600 watt and the 200 is a 200w unit. I will be completely revamping my PP now that I'm armed with my Scott Kelby books:bg3:, hopefully things will get better over the next few weeks. For now I will go back into LR and see what else I can pull out this image, thanks again for taking the time to review my pic.


Steve Kaluski
07-29-2021, 08:52 AM
Hi Wayne, thanks for the update. If you are now going the Lr route for conversion then just use any Contrast or additional black with a light hand, otherwise Lr will bury your image!

Paul Burdett
07-30-2021, 02:33 AM
Hi Wayne. I like the op. It is a little dark, but I see plenty of detail on my monitor.
Steve: I agree that over sharpening does cause halos, but I offered Wayne a solution to the issue in post, should he need it. However, you are correct in that there should be none to start with, although I must say I've seen plenty of images on this forum from excellent photographers that do exhibit halos...so maybe that's a lesson for all of us in terms of post processing.

Steve Kaluski
07-30-2021, 03:22 AM
Hi Paul, appreciate your response and great to see other members chiming in to help.

It is a little dark, but I see plenty of detail on my monitor.

There is 'detail' for sure, no question and better from previous postings, however it is clipped in the darks and so all I was trying to get Wayne to be aware of, was to always check the histogram during Capture, PP but also prior to exporting for say web. The more 'detail' you maintain within the file, the less sharpening is required and so the image looks great and halos are non existent. :S3:

However, you are correct in that there should be none to start with, although I must say I've seen plenty of images on this forum from excellent photographers that do exhibit halos...so maybe that's a lesson for all of us in terms of post processing.

I think Paul, it just stems from some simple house keeping when it comes to this, having a sharp raw is a given, avoid hefty cropping, and knowing how/when to sharpen images without being aggressive in the amounts amounts either as a pre-input or at the output stage, and using 16bit Tiffs with layers, never JPEG's with JPEG's on top of JPEG's they don't have the info. In addition the application of NR, the more you suppress the noise, the more sharpening is required, plus addressing Luminace and Colour noise sliders too, they all have a 'cause & effect' to the file and say in Lr you can visually see what & where you are applying it to the image for example. But the best way to avoid any noise is to ensure you have a well exposed image irrespective of ISO, if it's a tad light/bright most of the time you have the data, you just pull it back, but as you know, under exposed and you are inheriting a whole raft of issues.

Just my take

Paul Burdett
07-30-2021, 03:49 AM
Good points all around Steve. Using RawDigger has helped me improve my exposures as well.

Steve Kaluski
07-30-2021, 03:53 AM
Good points all around Steve. Using RawDigger has helped me improve my exposures as well.

Cheers Paul, yes RD is a good product, I've used it off & on for a long time, hence why i've said often to folks, though we think it's well exposed we still have a third or two thirds of a stop more there, albeit the cameras NO! :S3:

Brian Sump
07-30-2021, 10:47 AM
Wayne, neat to see this variety of Cormorant. I've always loved their eyes and the head/beak shape has an aggressive, mean appeal (as evidenced in your cropped rp). They are heavily overlooked for being so common but certainly have something to offer IMO.

Going through the proper steps to pull back some of the black saturation in the darks and strategically reduce contrast a touch could prove highly beneficial, as was mentioned. Lots of detail to be enhanced.... but also, I believe the image has a very strong yellow cast. Try pulling into LR and just for the sake of viewing, try temp -12 and tone -2, then play around by fine tuning and see how you like it.

Is masking the subject on a duplicated layer in PS part of your post process flow? If not, I highly recommend you take that route. It will not only allow you to process the subject and bkg independently of each other, nut that mask (if done properly) in combination with how you adjust your curves masks can also really help you avoid halos. I'm glad to share some things that work well for me if you desire, but you're obviously a talented photographer already and I don't want to insult your intelligence without knowing exactly how you process.


Arthur Morris
07-30-2021, 07:47 PM
Hey Wayne, I rather like it. But the darks and the highlights are both clipped in the JPEG. If you can, please shoot me the RAW file via a large file sending service like Hightail. To samandmayasgrandpa@att.net

with love, artie

Daniel Cadieux
07-31-2021, 07:40 AM
I like the scene and bird, nice light. Sharp, but I do see some burning residue along the lower edge of the subject and around the nest's feather. Good advice so far, and looking forward to artie's repost.

gail bisson
08-01-2021, 02:02 PM
I rather like this.
Technical stuff has been discusses so I will discuss the "lighter" stuff!
I would clone out the 2 whote spots on the far wing below the rump and I could see this with more of a pano crop.
Love the light and the color palette,

Wayne Niz
08-20-2021, 01:39 PM
Hey All

Sorry for the late response - things have been a bit crazy here in South Africa over the last few weeks. Here is Arthurs RP, it is miles better, no more harshness, thanks again for the help with this one191714

Arthur Morris
09-04-2021, 05:31 AM
Hi Wayne,

Sincere apologies for losing track of this thread. Wayne's repost is actually a fairly large crop of the re-done TIF file that I sent him (so as to match his original post). But I wanted to make an important point with the wider crop below. To begin with, RawDigger showed that the raw file was nearly one full stop under-exposed (as below). The lousy histogram and the lack of Zebra technology with the R5 make it very difficult for most folks to consistently come up with perfect exposures. I tried one for four months before committing to SONY full time (sorry Sump Scores). I converted the CR.3 file with Adobe Camera Raw (sorry Arash!). As always, I kept things very simple ; I raised the exposure, set the WHITE and BLACK points, and moved the Highlight slider well to the left (and not much else). Again see below. I will be doing a video on doing simple ACR raw conversions soon.

As Steve Kaluski said above, "Avoid heavy cropping." Simply put, many folks simply crop too tightly. In truth, I far prefer the look of the wider crop with this image. You can compare my wider crop with the original in the two panes below. Not to mention the improved IQ.

A huge processing error was made when Wayne made the white-washed stick of the nest a dark brown ... I did need to do some work to restore detail in the brightest white sticks (even though none were technically over-exposed), but keeping them white is, for me, an important part of the story.

with love, artie

ps: In retrospect, I might have gone with the blacks a bit blacker as is my usual style.

Arthur Morris
09-04-2021, 05:39 AM
tNote that the GREEN channel barely makes it over the 8000 line. I should be close to the 16000 line. In addition, note that the total of 10 OvExp pixels are all from a tiny specular highlight. Out of 26 million pixels, they have zero effect on the image.

RawDigger — not for the faint of heart …

Nothing has ever helped me learn to create perfect exposures to the degree that RawDigger has. I think that many folks are reluctant to learn that most of their images are underexposed by one or more full stops and that highlight warnings in Photoshop, Lightroom, Capture One, and your in-camera histogram are completely bogus as they are based on the embedded JPEGs. Only your raw files tell the truth all the time. Heck, I resisted RawDigger for several years … Once you get over that feeling, RawDigger can become your very best exposure friend no matter what system you are using. On the recent IPTs and In-the-Field sessions, we have demonstrated that fact. Convincingly.

The RawDigger (pink) Adapted Histogram

In the RawDigger e-Guide, you will learn exactly how to set up the Adapted “pink” RawDigger Histogram (that you see above) and how to use it to quickly and easily evaluate the exposure or raw file brightness of images from all digital cameras currently in use. RawDigger was especially helpful to me when I struggled with R5 exposures and when learned my new camera body, the Sony Alpha a1.

Arthur Morris
09-04-2021, 05:45 AM
by Arthur Morris with Patrick Sparkman

The RawDigger e-Guide was created only for serious photographers who wish to get the absolute most out of their raw files. Most recently, I have come to depend on RawDigger to guide me when adjusting the Exposure slider in Adobe Camera Raw.

Patrick and I began work on the guide in July 2020. At first we struggled. We asked questions. We learned about Max-G values. We could not figure out why the Max G values varied by camera system. IPT veteran Bart Deamer asked lots of questions that we could not answer. We got help from RawDigger creator Iliah Borg. We learned. In December, Patrick came up with an Adapted Histogram that allows us to evaluate the exposures and raw file brightness for all images created with all digital camera bodies from the last two decades. What we learned each time prompted three complete beginning to end re-writes.

The point of the guide is to teach you to truly expose to the mega-Expose-to-the-Right so that you will minimize noise, maximize image quality, best utilize your camera’s dynamic range, and attain the highest possible level of shadow detail in your RAW files in every situation. In addition, your properly exposed RAW files will contain more tonal information and feature the smoothest possible transitions between tones. And your optimized images will feature rich, accurate color.

We teach you why the GREEN channel is almost always the first to over-expose. We save you money by advising you which version of RawDigger you need. We teach you how to interpret the Max G values for your Canon, Nikon, and SONY camera bodies. It is very likely that the Shock-your-World section will shock you. And lastly — thanks to the technical and practical brilliance of Patrick Sparkman — we teach you a simple way to quickly and easily evaluate your exposures and raw file brightness using an Adapted RawDigger histogram.

The flower video takes you through a session where artie edits a folder of images in Capture One while checking the exposures and Max-G values in RawDigger. The Adapted Histogram video examines a series of recent images with the pink histograms and covers lots of fine points including and especially how to deal with specular highlights. The directions for setting up the Adapted Histogram are in the text.

If we priced this guide based on how much effort we put into it, it would sell it for $999.00. But as this guide will be purchased only by a limited number of serious photographers, we have priced it at $51.00. You can order yours here (https://birdsasart-shop.com/the-rawdigger-e-guide/) in the BAA Online Store (https://birdsasart-shop.com/).

Arthur Morris
09-04-2021, 05:52 AM
As usual, I keep things very simple when doing raw conversions. Important note: I never use any Auto settings when doing raw conversions. They all approved when I created the screen capture. :) All of the values were set manually as always.

with love, artie