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ashkan ojaghi
07-02-2008, 07:52 AM
Hi .. I saw this scene from our car near one of the highest mountains of Iran "Sabalan" .. You can see the valley filling with the fog and the sun rising from the top .. It's the only time we could see a non-foggy secne that day ! For the four or five hours after that we couldn't see any thing except our feet !
All of the critiques and comments are appreciated!!
Taken With:
Canon EOS 30D+18-55
Sutter speed: 1/160
F/7.1
ISO:320

Bruce Murden
07-02-2008, 08:31 AM
Lovely image! I really enjoy the flowing feel of the fog "river", with a mysterious darkness, and the promise of a beautiful day with the sun just starting to rise and the fair weather clouds above. It was a wonderful gift for you on a fog-filled day.

Overall, the color tone feels very cool blue, which works for the fog, but I think it would help with a little more warmth in the sun and nearby sky. Also, you may want to get some more detail out of the fog with some more exposure in the shadows. A split grad ND filter would have helped a here. Something to consider with other sunrise/sunset scenes where the sky is very much brighter than the FG.

ashkan ojaghi
07-02-2008, 10:47 AM
Hi bruce .. thank you for your comment and your suggestions .. the picture here is a little diferrent from it's 4 MB size .. in the big size the warmth of the sun and the sky is much higher and the shadows are brighter than this .. I think resizing caused this difference .. What should i do? .. I lowered it's size by' Image>Image size 'in the PS CS3 and saved it with 'Save for web & devices' tool !!!!!!!!!

Robert Amoruso
07-02-2008, 11:19 AM
Ashkan,

Sometimes the TIFF to JPG conversion can change things. See this link for some help http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2472.

I also fine that sometimes I need to tweak the JPG. I downloaded yours and did the following:

1) Curves adjustment to lighten the dark FG (fog and mountains). Then I applied a gradient mask to mask the sky off so it was not affected.
2) Using a Photo Filter 85 Warming at 13% to warm the sky some. On the mask, I painted black over the FG to keep the coll blue tones.

Below this I posted the layer stack from PS. Of course you can tweak this to your own liking as well.

I think the composition is great and like the sun placement and peaking out from behind the mountain and great clouds. Fog in the mountains/valley is icing on the cake. Nicely done.

Robert Amoruso
07-02-2008, 11:20 AM
PS Layers for the repost above.

ashkan ojaghi
07-02-2008, 12:59 PM
Thank you very much for your repost it has improvements over mine but I think the foggy area is a little overbrightened ..I think the darkness of that area increases the mystic mood of the picture (different likings)! But i liked the warming on the sky... the original File is JPG ! .. I've never tried the gradient mask but i'm going to learn about it ... Thank you for your repost!

Roman Kurywczak
07-02-2008, 03:56 PM
Hi Ashkan,
Very nicly seen and composed. On my monitor, Robert's re-post looks very good all around. I also tend to like "darker".........your fog was a bit too dark and you lost some of the detail in it......but this is personal preference....... and we both learned a new technique! I like your composition very much and you captured the mood perfectly. Very well done!

Robert Amoruso
07-02-2008, 07:55 PM
No problem Ashkan. With a layered TIFF file you can vary the adjustment as needed.

Image quality wise, your best bet is to shoot in RAW, convert to TIFF and make adjustments as needed. Starting with a JPG limits your ability to introduce tweaks to the image and maintain a high quality result. For posting, you then go back to a JPG.

If you need some suggestions on making a jump to RAW, let me know and I will let you know.

ashkan ojaghi
07-03-2008, 12:44 AM
Thank you Mr.kurywczak and Mr.armoruso .. in fact i've never tried shooting RAW .. i've heard many about the facilities of RAW files and want to learn about it ..i'll appreciate any help about it!!

Robert Amoruso
07-03-2008, 07:15 AM
Ashkan,

Probably the best basic resource I can recommend is Arthur Morris' Digital Basics Guide (http://www.birdsasart.com/digitalbasics.htm). It will get you started with a RAW workflow plus a whole lot more. Artie has done a good job distilling down the basic, the essentials to get you started fast then leads you into more advanced topics.

Since Artie photographs birds primarily, some sections are centered on those subjects and how to treat them in post-processing, but the basics taught in the guide is applicable across the board.

That you will want:

1) Software that converts the RAW to a TIFF file. The camera manufacturer would have included this with the digital camera. Canon's software is serviceable but lacks powerful features found elsewhere, but it will get the job done. Generally your conversion software also has an image browser for editing images.

2) Photo editing software the most popular being Adobe Photoshop CS (currently CS3). You also have Adobe Lightroom and Elements. I use Photoshop CS as I need its advanced capabilities like the layered adjustments I used above. Lightroom is also powerful but lacks layers. I think that for a nature photographer, having the ability to work in layers is a necessity. Elements is a scaled down Photoshop but still lacks some of the features I need.

3) If you have Photoshop or Lightroom, both use Adobe Camera Raw to convert RAW to TIFF. Both allow you to browse, sort and edit images.

4) Develop you RAW workflow and that where Artie's Digital Basics Guide comes in.

What I do/use. My way is not the only way and maybe not the best way.

1) Edit and sort images: Breeze Systems Breezebrowser Pro. IMO the best, fastest browser that previews images in a sharpened view so you see up front whether you obtained critical focus or not.

2) Covert RAW to TIFF: Breezebrowser or Adobe Camera Raw (ACR) for Canon. Capture NX for Nikon (this is Nikon own software and IMO does the best job converting their RAW files).

Working with ACR allows me to apply many post-processing adjustments to the image prior to conversion which, in theory, yields the highest image quality.

3) Converted TIFF file from step 2 is opened in Photoshop for final post-processing.

I work to create a layered TIFF file that can then be sized at high resolutions (240 ppi of more) for printing or to low resolutions (96 ppi, 800 pixels on the long side for posting)

See http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5598 for an article Artie and an excerpt from the Digital Basics Guide on creating a JPG for posting.

That should get you going.

BTW: Call me Robert.

Julie Kenward
07-03-2008, 09:20 PM
It's a stunning image Ashkan! I agree with Robert's changes but you really did an excellent job composing it in the first place.

ashkan ojaghi
07-04-2008, 12:16 AM
Thank you Very very much Robert for your giude and help ..I was khinking about buying the Arthur Morris' Digital Basics Guide but didn't know how it can improve my skills . .. now i'm going to buy one ... in the artie's “The Art of Bird Photography II” there is a chapter about digital workflow ... can it help me?..
I decided to shoot RAW but before that i should buy a new CF card (a 32 GB??)
Robert not sure but think that i'm the youngest member of BPN(1990) and the first Iranian.. you're so kind and friendly
.. Thank you Julie for your comment!

Robert Amoruso
07-09-2008, 05:47 AM
Ashkan,

Sorry it took me a few days to get back here - away for the holiday weekend here in the states.

You are very welcome. For RAW, an 8 or 16 GB card will be enough. I normally can shot 2000 images on my 16 GB card.

The Art of Bird Photography II has a lot of info on workflow plus you get all the other info to so it is a good place to start.

It is nice to have you here Ashkan. If you are not the youngest, you are certainly near the top in that regards. Let me know if you have any additional questions.