Northern pintail

[arash_hazeghi]

Not exactly my cup of tea but could not resist shooting these colorful ducks. Hope you like this frame. This is a male



shot with D850 and 500 PF ISO 640 f/5.6 at 1/3200sec hand held processed with Capture One Pro.

I also spent an hour shooting with the D850 and 500PF with this relatively fast flying ducks. The AF was great with the bare lens but with the TC it didn't do quite as well, besides the AF the frame rate drops quite a bit with my D850 when shooting at f/8 resulting in few keepers from ducks. I think if I am going to use the 500PF with TC for flight I am only going to use with the D5 which does significantly better in this case.

[arash_hazeghi]

PS. the duck has some kind of weed stuck to its bill

[Bill Dix]

Not sure why this isn't your cup of tea. It certainly works well for me -- my favorite duck, and the most elegant of all. Well captured, and interesting information about AF and frame rate.

[John Mack]

Very nice. Like the downstroke and that blue background. Im suprised you would even photograph a duck. Seem more like a raptor in golden light guy.

[Dorian Anderson]

Nice one Arash. Detail and exposure on bird are spot on. Stuff on bill is a bit distracting but that's life. Could be fixed if you care enough! I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the blue might me a bit on the strong side. I'd love to know this location if you'd be willing to share it!

[arash_hazeghi]

Nice one Arash. Detail and exposure on bird are spot on. Stuff on bill is a bit distracting but that's life. Could be fixed if you care enough! I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the blue might me a bit on the strong side. I'd love to know this location if you'd be willing to share it!

Hi Dorian, this is from Victoria BC and the blue there is just like that.

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[Daniel Cadieux]

The wing is spectacular! Super nice profile flight path. For sure I would at least remove the part of the twig that seems to be floating above the bill - I'm OK with the other bits stuck to it.

[Krishna Prasad kotti]

Downward wing position and the blue water really make this image.

I do not like the twig in the bill. I would clone that out.

TFS

[Krishna Prasad kotti]

Interesting information on 500 PF with D850. Can you let me know why the frame rate drops with D850 and PF, are you using below options

AF-C Priority Selection - Focus or Focus + Release ?

[arash_hazeghi]

Interesting information on 500 PF with D850. Can you let me know why the frame rate drops with D850 and PF, are you using below options

AF-C Priority Selection - Focus or Focus + Release ?

As I said above frame rate drops with the TC because AF is too slow at f/8.

[Arthur Morris]

Are you saying that the frame rate drops because AF is struggling with the TC?

a

[Krishna Prasad kotti]

As I said above frame rate drops with the TC because AF is too slow at f/8.

If AF-C Priority Selection is set to release then Pictures can be taken whether or not the camera is in focus. Frame rates do not slow, which is why I was asking did you set to Focus or Focus + Release. If yes then Frame rate is always dependent on whether subject is in focus or not.

[arash_hazeghi]

If AF-C Priority Selection is set to release then Pictures can be taken whether or not the camera is in focus. Frame rates do not slow, which is why I was asking did you set to Focus or Focus + Release. If yes then Frame rate is always dependent on whether subject is in focus or not.

yes Krishna I am well aware of that, but it makes no difference in practice and you do not want soft photos anyway. If it is a little bit soft it is a fat delete for me

The D850 is just not up to the job for focusing at f/8 the D5 doesn't have this problem. you get what you pay for :)

[arash_hazeghi]

Are you saying that the frame rate drops because AF is struggling with the TC?

a

Yup as I mentioned in my review of the 500PF, the D850 AF system doesn't do well when max aperture is f/8. The D5 is a lot faster in this scenario. Similar to Canon 1DX series vs. 5D4.

[Arthur Morris]

Yup as I mentioned in my review of the 500PF, the D850 AF system doesn't do well when max aperture is f/8. The D5 is a lot faster in this scenario. Similar to Canon 1DX series vs. 5D4.

Surely faster in initial AF acquisition but as Krishna said, if you are not in Focus Priority then the frame rate of the D-850 will not be reduced. You need to be careful with your words :)

Furthermore, when you notice unsharpness with D850 images as compared to D5 images you are forgetting that motion blur and focusing "error" are more obvious when using high mega-pixel bodies. Yes, you get what you pay for: few pixels and more forgiving files ...

with love, artie

[arash_hazeghi]

Surely faster in initial AF acquisition but as Krishna said, if you are not in Focus Priority then the frame rate of the D-850 will not be reduced. You need to be careful with your words :)

Furthermore, when you notice unsharpness with D850 images as compared to D5 images you are forgetting that motion blur and focusing "error" are more obvious when using high mega-pixel bodies. Yes, you get what you pay for: few pixels and more forgiving files ...

with love, artie

Hi Artie, I am super careful with my words :) The frame rate does drop regardless of AF priority in this case (don't trust what the manual says). Only if you set the camera to manual focus it will still shoot at 9fps. However I am finding that when shooting at f/8, the D850 performs much better when set to dynamic 9 as opposed to Grp. Still almost useless if you ask me. I was shooting avocets and stilts the other day with this combo....ZERO keepers until I took off the TC.....waste of time for anything other than pelicans or other slow/large birds.


As for your 2nd statement, I have to disagree respectfully. First, with fast shutter speed motion blur is not a factor. Second, a tack sharp D5 file is MUCH superior to a soft D850 file. Softness reduces effective resolution rapidly, even a slightly soft 40 mega-pixel file contains less spatial information than a tack sharp 20 mega pixel file. Blur resulting from soft focus is like a low pass filter, it annihilates high spatial frequencies (read fine feather details) captured by a higher resolution sensor.... D850 also struggles a bit capturing the best wing position at 9fps, had and deleted one thousand tack sharp duck files because of sub-par wing position....


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[Arthur Morris]

Hi Artie, I am super careful with my words :) The frame rate does drop regardless of AF priority in this case (don't trust what the manual says). Only if you set the camera to manual focus it will still shoot at 9fps. However I am finding that when shooting at f/8, the D850 performs much better when set to dynamic 9 as opposed to Grp. Still almost useless if you ask me. I was shooting avocets and stilts the other day with this combo....ZERO keepers until I took off the TC.....waste of time for anything other than pelicans or other slow/large birds.

Not super careful. I understand that the frame rate drops when you are in tracking AF. But the frame rate does NOT DROP when the TC is added unless you have set Focus Priority. I did use Group AF at f/8 for my recent too-slow-flying-too-easy- for-Arash pelican image. Working at 700 or at 800 with the SONY at f/11 it is difficult for me to keep the AF point or area right on the bird's face ...



As for your 2nd statement, I have to disagree respectfully. First, with fast shutter speed motion blur is not a factor. Second, a tack sharp D5 file is MUCH superior to a soft D850 file. Softness reduces effective resolution rapidly, even a slightly soft 40 mega-pixel file contains less spatial information than a tack sharp 20 mega pixel file. Blur resulting from soft focus is like a low pass filter, it annihilates high spatial frequencies (read fine feather details) captured by a higher resolution sensor.... D850 also struggles a bit capturing the best wing position at 9fps, had and deleted one thousand tack sharp duck files because of sub-par wing position.... best

I have to disagree with you respectfully on the above. The more densely packed the pixels the greater the effect of any movement at all, even in high shutter speeds. The D5 is more forgiving because it has half the pixels. So yes, a sharp D5 image blows away a soft D850 image just as a sharp D850 image blows away a sharp D5 image.

I do agree with your comment on wing positions. I started a series on the blog the other day: Flight Poses and Wings Positions: Part I of Many. And a killer forward-facing/turning left flight image made with the 500 PF/TC-E14/D850 Rig. Folks can see that post here. (http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2019/02/21/flight-poses-and-wings-positions-part-i-of-many-and-a-killer-forward-facing-turning-left-flight-image-made-with-the-500-pf-tc-e14-d850-rig/)

with love, artie

[arash_hazeghi]

Hi Artie

Not sure If you read what I wrote above

as I said I have not set the camera to AF priority in this case.

I was comparing a tack sharp D5 file to a soft D850 file. Of course when they are both tack sharp D850 is better unless the ISO is too high It’s a no brainer. And that’s why AF is so important.

As long as the shutter speed is faster than the displacement of the bird on sensor compared to pixel size the motion has no effect on sharpness. It is math that determines it rather than an option. When the bird is flying parallel to the back of the camera you actually don’t need a very fast shutter speed because panning cancels some of the relative motion between camera and the bird assuming you pan well. When the bird is incoming you need fast shutter speeds. For an image like this one 1/3200 is even a bit of an overkill if your panning skillls are good.



Cheers

[Raybel Robles]

Oh my, I think you guys spend too much time on the technical aspect!!! :bg3:

But great photo Arash, superb details and perfect wing stroke.

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Artie

Not sure If you read what I wrote above

as I said I have not set the camera to AF priority in this case.

I was comparing a tack sharp D5 file to a soft D850 file. Of course when they are both tack sharp D850 is better unless the ISO is too high It’s a no brainer. And that’s why AF is so important.

As long as the shutter speed is faster than the displacement of the bird on sensor compared to pixel size the motion has no effect on sharpness. It is math that determines it rather than an option. When the bird is flying parallel to the back of the camera you actually don’t need a very fast shutter speed because panning cancels some of the relative motion between camera and the bird assuming you pan well. When the bird is incoming you need fast shutter speeds. For an image like this one 1/3200 is even a bit of an overkill if your panning skillls are good.

Cheers

Without focus priority adding a TC should have zero affect on frame rate ...

For me better AF has been a huge improvement in my flight photography but I would rate superior skills as a bigger factor; that is why you and David were able to make so many great images (despite your using?) with your Canon gear ... If you are not sure the pre=ceding sentence was a big compliment :)

I am not smart enough to completely understand the last part but I do know that the more mega-pixels the more that various photographer errors (i.e. by me) are exposed.

with love, artie

[arash_hazeghi]

Without focus priority adding a TC should have zero affect on frame rate ...

For me better AF has been a huge improvement in my flight photography but I would rate superior skills as a bigger factor; that is why you and David were able to make so many great images (despite your using?) with your Canon gear ... If you are not sure the pre=ceding sentence was a big compliment :)

I am not smart enough to completely understand the last part but I do know that the more mega-pixels the more that various photographer errors (i.e. by me) are exposed.

with love, artie

Hi Artie,

Have you tried shooting ducks with D850 + 500PF + TC and the frame rate did not drop for you ?

[Arthur Morris]

Hi Artie,

Have you tried shooting ducks with D850 + 500PF + TC and the frame rate did not drop for you ?

Never shot ducks with the 500 PF and the TC-E14 and the D850 but what does the subject have to do with lowering the frame rate? I have used that combo for flight a bit but I never noticed a slower frame rate. That said, I rarely if ever hold the shutter button down as my panning ability does not allow for that :)

with love, artie

[arash_hazeghi]

Never shot ducks with the 500 PF and the TC-E14 and the D850 but what does the subject have to do with lowering the frame rate? I have used that combo for flight a bit but I never noticed a slower frame rate. That said, I rarely if ever hold the shutter button down as my panning ability does not allow for that :)

with love, artie


That explains it, I recommend you try shooting a burst of a challenging subject with the 850 and 500 and TC to see this for yourself.

As I mentioned above, even when the camera is set to "release priority" it WILL try to focus before giving up, it will just try for a shorter time compared to when it is set to "focus priority" , so when shooting challenging subject against varied BG the frame rate will drop. The only way to get back to 9 fps is to shoot manual focus with D850. I hadn't noticed this myself before until I tried shooting these ducks.


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