Good news for Nikon shooters, the D5

[arash_hazeghi]

Nikon announced the flagship D5 as well as the D500 crop sensor camera that is the replacement of the now obsolete D300

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2370616853/nikon-fills-in-the-blanks-on-professional-grade-d5-dslr

Something tells me a big announcement is imminent from Canon as well!

[Don Lacy]

The D500 is something Nikon shooters have been dreaming of for years and the D5 looks like a killer camera for action. Will be interesting to see what Canon comes out with I hope what ever camera they announce has improved low ISO noise just so the reviewers can have something else to complain about besides DR.

[Marc Mol]

Have pre-ordered both the D5 & D500, and will be trading in my much loved D700 & D4 to help ease some of the damage to my wallet :Whoa!:

Canon will have a huge hurdle to get even close to producing a low noise sensor & DR that will compete with Nikon in the next few years, IMO :w3

[Don Lacy]

Have pre-ordered both the D5 & D500, and will be trading in my much loved D700 & D4 to help ease some of the damage to my wallet :Whoa!:

Canon will have a huge hurdle to get even close to producing a low noise sensor & DR that will compete with Nikon in the next few years, IMO :w3
we will see with an Olympic year most people expect the announcement of the 1DX replacement in February.

[arash_hazeghi]

Have pre-ordered both the D5 & D500, and will be trading in my much loved D700 & D4 to help ease some of the damage to my wallet :Whoa!:

Canon will have a huge hurdle to get even close to producing a low noise sensor & DR that will compete with Nikon in the next few years, IMO :w3

that's not entirely true. Canon FF sensors have actually lower noise than Nikon at high ISO where it matters for wildlife shooters. What those "internet experts" complain about is low ISO DR i.e. shadow detail in ISO 100 once you lift the shadows. This doesn't apply to wildlife photographers who don't typically shoot at ISO 100 and lift there shadows severely.

The D5 can finally compete with the 4 year old 1DX, at least on paper, which has been shooting at 12fps for the last 4 years. When it comes to sports and wildlife Canon's lead is quite firm :w3

I have to say I wasn't really impressed with the D4 compared to my 1DX, the AF when attached to super telephoto lens wasn't quite as fast as the Canon and couldn't keep up, not sure it was the lenses or the body. But I hope the new AF system in D5 has addressed this issue.

[Don Lacy]

that's not true. Canon FF sensors have actually lower noise than Nikon at high ISO where it matters for wildlife shooters. What those "internet experts" complain about is low ISO DR i.e. shadow detail in ISO 100 once you lift the shadows. This doesn't apply to wildlife photographers who don't typically shoot at ISO 100 and lift there shadows severely.

The D5 can finally compete with the 4 year old 1DX, at least on paper, which has been shooting at 12fps for the last 4 years. When it comes to sports and wildlife Canon's lead is quite firm :w3

I have to say I wasn't really impressed with the D4 compared to my 1DX, the AF when attached to super telephoto lens wasn't quite as fast as the Canon and couldn't keep up, not sure it was the lenses or the body. But I hope the new AF system in D5 has addressed this issue.

Also starting with the 6D Canon has corrected the shadow banding issue they had you can now pull shadows up to three stops with the 6D, 7DMKII, and the 5Ds series with little penalty. After ISO 800 The DR of all cameras more or less even out to around 12 stops with some slightly better and some slightly worse you cannot escape the physics of light. Once shot noise the noise inherent in light becomes greater then the electronic noise produce by the camera itself the ability to pull detail out of shadows is gone which is more or less happens around ISO 800.

One other thing there is no free lunch even with the Sony sensors if you shoot an image at ISO 100 and pull your shadows let's say 6 stops your shadows will have the same noise charectistics as if they where shot at ISO 3200 again you cannot escape the physics of light. Not a big deal if your only posting online or producing small prints but if you do want to print large you will have issues getting those shadows to look good.

Would I like Canon to produce a sensor on par with Sony when it comes to low ISO noise that would be yes it would make some of the things I do in post easier and save some time processing with some images.

[David Stephens]

...

With th all that said would I like Canon to produce a sensor on par with Sony when it comes to low ISO noise that would be yes it would make some of the things I do in post easier and save some time processing with some images.

I agree, but only so long as I don't have to give up anything at higher ISOs. I've been using ETTR for so long that I really don't miss any DR. If I look at a shot that requires extreme DR, I shoot an HDR burst and take the small extra step in post.

[arash_hazeghi]

Actually my 1DX is pretty good when it comes to shadow recovery I haven't really felt the need for more, here is an example :

1DX 16-35 f/4 IS. ISO 400. f/4 1/1250sec

RAW as exposed

158325

+3 EV in DPP, shadow +2

158326

100% crop of shadow details with no noise reduction. (NR=0)

158327

blended 0EV and +3EV (from single RAW capture) at HD resolution. No noise reduction applied.
https://ari1982.smugmug.com/photos/i-QLQ2hxj/0/O/i-QLQ2hxj.jpg


If you push any image +6 stops the shadows will suck period. At base ISO the typical shadow pixel of 20Mpixel FF camera will capture less than 100 electrons. when you are pushing it by another 6 stops it means that you are trying to resolve like 100/2^6 ~ 2 electrons! it will just look like a three-tone image. now with averaging and down sampling you might get something at tiny sizes but why would anyone do that?

The reason you see so much hype on sites like dpreview.com from the reviewers and users is that most of them including the reviewers are not really experienced photographers as evident by their "sample" images. And many of those internet experts don't even own the gear they talk about, and will likely never own it. I had a discussion with a friend of a friend who works for a smartphone company a while back and he was telling me how much better Sony sensors are compared to Canon. When I inquired what camera he used and what photos he took, he showed me his iPhone and some underexposed blurry images of his pet :S3:

I think both Canon and Nikon are great cameras and excellent images of the highest quality can be made with either one of them as demonstrated in our own forums. For specific applications such as birds in flight or sports, Canon have enjoyed the advantage of the light series II super telephoto lenses and the best in class AF in their flagship model for more than 4 years now. Nikon have recently leveled the playing field with their own light lenses but strangely I haven't seen any in the field yet to see how it stacks against Canon in terms of optics and AF. Maybe because they are hard to find and generally more expensive since the used market is much smaller than Canon. Any ways, for me personally the limiting factor is the opportunity and the free time to travel rather than my gear. I am sure the same is true for Nikon users.

[Marc Mol]

that's not entirely true. Canon FF sensors have actually lower noise than Nikon at high ISO where it matters for wildlife shooters. What those "internet experts" complain about is low ISO DR i.e. shadow detail in ISO 100 once you lift the shadows. This doesn't apply to wildlife photographers who don't typically shoot at ISO 100 and lift there shadows severely.

The D5 can finally compete with the 4 year old 1DX, at least on paper, which has been shooting at 12fps for the last 4 years. When it comes to sports and wildlife Canon's lead is quite firm :w3

I have to say I wasn't really impressed with the D4 compared to my 1DX, the AF when attached to super telephoto lens wasn't quite as fast as the Canon and couldn't keep up, not sure it was the lenses or the body. But I hope the new AF system in D5 has addressed this issue.

Sorry Arash,

Will have to respectively agree to disagree.:w3

10,11, 12 FPS is neither here nor there, it's AF acquisition, DR and ISO performance that counts and the D4s has led the way here, IMO.
I have the new and amazing lightweight Nikkor 400 f/2.8E FL, teamed with the D4s is simply superb, so really looking forward to the new D5 on this beast.
Let's not roll out the old Nikon V Canon debate and just say one has it's advantages & disadvantages with both.
And yes have used the Canon 1DX an excellent DSLR in it's own right.

BTW, I'm not a member of any Nikon paid association and pay for everything myself.

[arash_hazeghi]

Hi Marc
Don't get me wrong. I didn't say Nikon was bad, it's a great body. It was just that in my hands and for the subject I specialize in, i.e hand hold birds in flight with a big lens , it wasn't quite the same as the 1DX and a big white in my opinion. That's the main reason I switched from Nikon to Canon in 2009. Back then I had a D3S and a 500 VR. To be honest I don't know that many photographers who shoot hand hold flight wih Nikon big lenses. Maybe that will change with their new lenses. It's all for the better

Best

[Marc Mol]

Hi Marc
Don't get me wrong. I didn't say Nikon was bad, it's a great body. It was just that in my hands and for the subject I specialize in, i.e hand hold birds in flight with a big lens , it wasn't quite the same as the 1DX and a big white in my opinion. That's the main reason I switched from Nikon to Canon in 2009. Back then I had a D3S and a 500 VR. To be honest I don't know that many photographers who shoot hand hold flight wih Nikon big lenses. Maybe that will change with their new lenses. It's all for the better

Best

I understand Arash

I went the other way from Canon to Nikon back in 2004, I'd like you to get your hands on a D4s if you can, which has a far superior AF to the D4 and in combination with the new lighter FL primes it's a wonderful wildlife/sport shooters dream. .........if you ever make it to Switzerland you'd be welcome to try :bg3:
You'd certainly enjoy the new Nikkor 500/4 and it's reduced weight and more importantly the way it balances for H/H shooting.
Regardless, competition & technology from both camps can only be a healthy thing, right.

So good things to come with the D5, D500 and the new IDX mkII soon for you, have you heard any rumours on the proposed specs?

Cheers
Marc

[arash_hazeghi]

I haven't heard any rumors about Canon's 1DX replacement, they usually keep things very tight until the announcement


Cheers

[Neil Williams]

I'm hoping Nikon come out with a D5X :) No point in upgrading to the D5 from a D4s right now............I will wait

[Marc Mol]

I'm hoping Nikon come out with a D5X :) No point in upgrading to the D5 from a D4s right now............I will wait

Can't see it happening Neil IMO,

That "X" series high MP has now neen replaced by the D800 series, you're more likely to see it appear as a D850, possibly within a year.

Cheers
Marc

[Neil Williams]

That "X" series high MP has now neen replaced by the D800 series, you're more likely to see it appear as a D850, possibly within a year.

Cheers
MarcI'm sure your right, and if thats the case I will wait and see what the so called D850 comes out with compared to the D810 which I recently bought and find it takes amazing high resolution pictures I just prefer the feel of the pro body of the D4s in hand...........
Shooting birds (especially small birds) you really need more than 20 MP unless you are posting just on forums and FB. Since starting printing my own stuff last year I am looking for the best resolution out there.............it would be nice if Leica came out with a long telephoto for there S system :bg3:

[Neil Williams]

Hi Marc
Don't get me wrong. I didn't say Nikon was bad, it's a great body. It was just that in my hands and for the subject I specialize in, i.e hand hold birds in flight with a big lens , it wasn't quite the same as the 1DX and a big white in my opinion. That's the main reason I switched from Nikon to Canon in 2009. Back then I had a D3S and a 500 VR. To be honest I don't know that many photographers who shoot hand hold flight wih Nikon big lenses. Maybe that will change with their new lenses. It's all for the better

BestArash
Ive been using my Nikon D4s and 600mm f4e lens for shooting BIF and its a fantastic combination................ I would post up some pictures but I am work right now so will need to wait Until I am back in Kl towards the end of the month

[Morkel Erasmus]

I would love playing with the D5 but given the tank-dive the ZAR currency has taken it is out of my reach.
I will probably be able to review it for Nikon SA on a trip during the year, though.
Looks like an amazing piece of kit!!