Question about noise in image

[Richard Gollar]

Hello I am trying to figure out what I am doing wrong. The image I took is at Iso 1250 and a f stop of 5.6 and 1/2000 shutter speed. It is a canon 7d Mark II with a 400mm f/5.6l lens. The first image is straight out of the camera with no edits except raw file saved to jpeg. The second image is it cropped to show all the noise in the back ground. I know I can clean most of it up with luminance. But I am trying to get a better shot with out having to rely on software so much. Any suggestion of what I can do to make the image cleaner straight out of the camera? Thanks
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5673/21096797526_82a91e6f82_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/y9fAUo)_61A6189 (https://flic.kr/p/y9fAUo) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/595/21130736651_a55b02689f_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ycfxPH)_61A6189-2 (https://flic.kr/p/ycfxPH) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Can you post a screen capture of your histogram of the RAW file without ANY adjustments? I think in ACR you can just press the underlined DEFAULT link on the first tab above the EXPOSURE slider.
I think based on what I can see without a histogram is that you could potentially push the exposure a bit more to the right, although you need to be very careful not to blow the highlights.

Note that the digital sensor cannot record all the dynamic range (from whitest of whites to blackest of blacks) in one capture either, so at times it is important to sacrifice the light tones to get a better push of the dark ones. However, with subjects like your osprey with white in the plumage, there is a risk of blowing the whites there.

I have a basic blog article on how I manage noise here (http://www.amatteroflight.com/wordpress/?p=417), and compared to most people on BPN, I use much older cameras. One would expect the same principle applied to the newer, improved, sensors will yield the same results.

The other thing is (without seeing your histogram) that (from my personal view at least) you have cropped this image way too much and that's why it appears noisy too. It is usually best to try and fill as much of the frame as possible with the subject, as that way you get a far higher quality file.

[Richard Gollar]

Here is the unedited image with the histogram. Yes I agree the cropping is why the noise is so bad. But it seems like if its really brightly light out side the noise is not as bad. I know it helps because the iso is lower but when its cloudy out I struggle to get real sharp images. I guess it comes down to need to get closer or a longer zoom lens. It just seems when there is alot of light out the noise is real low. Does it look like my exposure is to low and needs more light. This is straight out of the camera with no adjustments, I am thinking I dont have the exposure proper here.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5816/21125228265_9970039042_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ybLjnx)histogram (https://flic.kr/p/ybLjnx) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr

[Richard Gollar]

Right now I am stuck between getting the canon 1dx or the canon lens 500 f/4L version 1. I really want the extra reach of the lens but it just seem like the 1dx delivers such sharp images even when cropped some. I know the full frame helps with the image. Just not sure which way to go.

[Ákos Lumnitzer]

Looks like you could have pushed more for sure. Without knowing exactly what constitutes one stop on the histogram, I would think at least 1/2 to 1 stop more.

Here is a file I shot with a 1DMkIII at ISO1600 (this is a 100% crop (http://amatteroflight.com/gallery2/d/7754-2/1DMarkIII-ISO1600-100percent-crop.jpg)) without NR at all.
Same camera at ISO 6400 here (http://amatteroflight.com/gallery2/d/7761-2/1DMarkIII-ISO6400-100percent-crop.jpg)without NR and here (http://amatteroflight.com/gallery2/d/7762-2/1DMarkIII-ISO6400-100percent-crop-with-NR.jpg) with NR applied.

[Richard Gollar]

Now that picture at ISO1600 with no noise reduction and 100 percent zoom is it so much cleaner because your light and exposure was correct and mine was not exposed enough to the right. Is that why yours is so much cleaner? I am just trying to better understand this. Because I am finding with my canon 6d I can get razor sharp images but with the 7D mark II I have a much harder time getting sharp images. Is this due to a full frame sensor vs crop?

[Don Lacy]

The image could have been pushed about another stop without clipping the highlights which would have allowed you to pull the exposure down in post which helps with noise. Also you did not specify which Raw converter you used when shooting the 7DMKII at higher ISO I would use DPP4 which gives you a cleaner file in my opinion when using higher ISO. Another issue is the subject is way to small in the frame a high mega pixel APS sized sensor is already a cropped version of a full size sensor and really does not hold up well to large crops. Plus there are things you can do during the Raw conversion and in post processing that would negate the noise you see here without effecting the detail of the subject. If this was shot with a 1DX and 400mmm lens the subject would have been a speck in the frame so unless you can get a 500 or better yet a 600 lens with the 1DX you will have even more issues with your subject being to small in the frame.

[Richard Gollar]

Well I would like to thank you both for the insight to my operator error. I guess I am going to go with the 500mm F/4.0L lens then as it seems like that will help me more. And I need to expose more the right for more light. Thanks so much for the info now to get out and practice some more.

[Daniel Cadieux]

I agree with the boys above. Your file is technically exposed correctly (or very close to it), but pushing your histogram to the right even more and then reducing it in post does help. Yes also to having to crop as much as you did - the more you crop to get the subject larger in the frame unfortunately means also getting those noisy pixels to get more magnified.

If you have the budget for it then I would suggest going for the lens, you will not regret the extra reach...especially with a TC if you can spring for that too.

[Diane Miller]

The 7D2 has more noise than the 5D3, 6D or 1DX, but it can be managed in many cases. As said above, exposing as far right as possible is the first thing to do, and don't crop much. Try to stay below ISO 1600 -- 800 is better. Then in Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom there is a noise reduction slider with some fine-tuning parameters that in my experience is better than DPP, which reduces noise at the expense of detail. There are no miracles in noise reduction but in ACR/LR you have a little more control. And after you go to Photoshop with an image, Nik's Dfine or the Neat Image plug-in can help a lot.

[Richard Gollar]

Thank you all again for the help. I got a better picture today of the bird. And getting closer and pushing the exposure to the right helped alot. Thanks again
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5647/21166264402_e355b4d491_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/yfoCZ9)_61A6393 (https://flic.kr/p/yfoCZ9) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr

[Daniel Cadieux]

Richard, I am glad you were able to achieve better results!

[Don Lacy]

Nice image really the secret is to get your subject as large as possible in the frame and expose to the right as far as you can without clipping .