Canon 7d mark II question

[Richard Gollar]

I have been having a hard time with my canon 7d mark II getting focus. In dpp4 it shows the focus point dead center on the bird but its out of focus. Here is a sample. I have done a lens and camera calibration so I dont think its a front or back focusing issue. But the sample sure looks like it is. I am using the latest firmware. Im just wondering if I should send it to canon for a check up. I am using back button aiservo and a center and 4 outer points for focus points. Unless I am against the blue sky it struggles to focus on the subject. And its always a soft focus. Any suggestions thanks
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/276/20145458309_5aeb70dbd4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wGbJU6)test (https://flic.kr/p/wGbJU6) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr

[arash_hazeghi]

This image is not soft but it is completely OOF (out of focus). The focus locked on the trees in the BG. The reason this happened is because the bird was tiny in the frame (it's about 5% of the frame). It needs to be at least 20-25% (4-5 times larger) in the frame for the camera to focus on. You need to get a lot closer to your subject or use a longer lens to be successful in capturing a frame that is in focus.


Obviously this has nothing to do with focus calibration. There is much misinformation on the web about focus calibration. This article will help you understand more about it http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/focus-micro-adjustment-is-it-always-needed/

[Richard Gollar]

Thank you so much for the info arash. I have been going crazy trying to figure this out. Well I think its time to start saving for a 500mm f4.0 lens and get closer.

[David Stephens]

Be sure you're in AI Servo mode. I get my best results with single-point AF. It's tougher to get the AF point on the target, but you can do it with practice. Arash is correct, but I find that with AI Servo mode and shooting in bursts of two or three (making certain that the AF point is on the bird before pressing the AF button) then I'll get around 80% in focus, even on a distant bird as in your example. I prefer using the shutter release for AF activation, because I "bump" AF on and off, to activate it only when I have the target under the AF point. You can do the same with the back button, but I find it more intuitive with the shutter release button.

It takes lots of practice. Your example shows some of the toughest conditions (very contrasty BG). With a blue-sky BG, you can use more AF points, but when you get close to the bird, you risk that the wrong AF point will grab a wing instead of the eye.

Which AF program are you using?

[Richard Gollar]

I have been using AF Expansion the one with 4 points. I am going to try and use single point for farther subjects.

[David Stephens]

I have been using AF Expansion the one with 4 points. I am going to try and use single point for farther subjects.

Good. Which AF menu program are you using?

[Richard Gollar]

Are you talking about case setting when you ask about af menu program? Or are you referring to the mode on the dial? If you are I am shooting in tv mode with the shutter set at 2000 fps and auto iso. I am still trying to figure out the best set up for Birds in flight. When I have a constant background then I shoot in full manual. But when I go from sky to woods in the same frame I shoot in tv with auto iso. Still trying to figure this out.

[David Stephens]

Are you talking about case setting when you ask about af menu program? Or are you referring to the mode on the dial? If you are I am shooting in tv mode with the shutter set at 2000 fps and auto iso. I am still trying to figure out the best set up for Birds in flight. When I have a constant background then I shoot in full manual. But when I go from sky to woods in the same frame I shoot in tv with auto iso. Still trying to figure this out.

For some reason, only the first sentence of your response is showing in the thread.

As to the first sentence, I'm talking about the Cases in the Menu. Those will make quite a difference in how the AF responds.

The only time I use an automated mode, like Av or Tv is when the BG doesn't vary and the sun is behind me. For BIF, generally you're at a pond, lake or wood and you might be shooting a bird against blue sky or trees, without changing position. Taking into consideration if you're shooting white birds or dark birds, set you Manual setting by a reference, such as bark on a tree in the light, for brown birds, For white birds, get one on the water in the sun. Take test shots, with your "blinky" warning lights enabled. Look at the LED and adjust up and down as needed.

IME, the 7D MkII is much better at higher ISOs than most people give it credit for. I use ISO 800 as my default for shooting BIF. In bright sun I'll take that down to ISO 400 and in overcast, I'll take that up to 1600. The "ideal" aperture/shutter-speed setting for BIF is f/8 and 1/3200-sec. If light will not allow and I'm at ISO 1600, I may let the SS go as low as 1/800-sec., but higher is usually better. I'll open the aperture all the way up before going below 1/1000-sec. I probably average 1/2500-sec. for BIF.

If you're not hand holding, start working at it for BIF. Putting your camera on a tripod will almost guarantee that a bird will fly straight at and over you, exceeding the travel limits of your tripod. Hand holding at the SSs that I suggest, will yield a higher keeper rate, once you adjust to the weight of your rig.

[Richard Gollar]

I am shooting handheld and its really a light set up because I only have a 400mm f5.6 lens right now for birds in flight. The case setting I am using is 3 right now. I am still trying to figure out which one is best for these kind of shots. Do you mind me asking what one you use and do you change its values? I am going to try and us manual more because your not the only one that says they use manual more. Thank you for the helpful suggestions it really helps.

[Diane Miller]

Your main problem here is using the 4 surrounding points. They are grabbing onto the BG with such a small subject. Use only the center point with a busy BG like this. You'll miss the subject some, but you'll learn to get better. With the 4 extra points, the camera will almost always miss focus for a small subject. Against blue sky you can use the extra points and even expand to Zone Focus. That will let the camera choose which point to use, and it's better that you set one and keep it on the head, but if that's not working well, Zone might get you more frames in focus. If the bird is very large in the frame, though, you will have a DOF issue and you will want to place one point on the head/eye. A lot of practice will help.

If the subject is in constant light and the BG is changing, in any of the autoexposure modes you'll get the additional problem of exposure variations, where the BG gets priority over the subject.

[arash_hazeghi]

with subject so small in the frame even the center point is likely lock on the BG. Trying different cases etc. will not help you until you satisfy the most basic requirement of flight photography, i.e. subject being sufficiently large in the frame. A good measure that I often recommend to folks is the center meter circle, you want the subject to be larger than the metering circle you see in the finder, if it is smaller, don't waste your time and battery :S3:.

Even if you manage to get the bird in focus by luck, this image is a delete since it won't show any details given the massive crop.

hope this helps

[David Stephens]

I am shooting handheld and its really a light set up because I only have a 400mm f5.6 lens right now for birds in flight. The case setting I am using is 3 right now. I am still trying to figure out which one is best for these kind of shots. Do you mind me asking what one you use and do you change its values? I am going to try and us manual more because your not the only one that says they use manual more. Thank you for the helpful suggestions it really helps.

I use Program 3, with a slight modification, which you shouldn't worry about at this point. Av or Tv can work, when the light is at your back and the bird and BG are relatively the same. (If not the same, you can use + or - EV to adjust. I believe that you should go ahead and continue to try for the shots like your sample. Yes, they won't be NatGeo quality, but that's part of growing in photography and learning what works. I still take "safety" shots, sometimes with the subject so small that a single AF point covers it. I'll then look at it 10x on the LCD, often to identify the type of bird. I then try to get closer, or wait for a bird to fly closer, or pull out a bigger lens, etc., etc. IMO, there's nothing wrong with taking images that you'll delete later.

I all Modes, you need to remember to constantly check all parameters. M mode forces you to constantly think about the light, look at the exposure meter (on the right side of the VF) take test shots, etc. Test shots are almost free. So are those in-focus, long shots that don't have enough pixels for anything more than a FB post. ;-)

[Richard Gollar]

Well I would like to thank all that gave suggestions. I have found that using only the center point for focus was the trick. He are some samples from the same distance away and came out acceptable. I still need to get closer or a longer lens for sharper images but its a start. These are pretty heavily cropped so I am pretty satisfied with how they turned out. Again thanks all for the help as you can see it helped alot.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5725/19905916923_bc2f116285_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wk22Ac)1-8 (https://flic.kr/p/wk22Ac) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5639/20533222971_c48d25ec38_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xhs8PH)1-2 (https://flic.kr/p/xhs8PH) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5797/20340117349_732d5d5e18_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wZoqfr)1-5 (https://flic.kr/p/wZoqfr) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5771/20500583716_378a23b4d0_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xeyRiW)1-10 (https://flic.kr/p/xeyRiW) by rgollar (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59062365@N07/), on Flickr

[Diane Miller]

These are an excellent start! I look forward to seeing more!

[David Stephens]

These are an excellent start! I look forward to seeing more!

Yeah Richard, thanks for the great follow-up post.