"Slap ready" paw

[Carl Walker]

Finding it hard, with work load lately, to get anything done for Bpn. Here is something I did a while back and decided to try a couple of versions in mono to see what I could come up with. My gut feel keeps coming back to this image which is a fine art 'feel'. What do you guys think?
I chose this crop here and the other one that I favour is one that comes in from the left to just off the animals right shoulder/leg.

Quite like the flowing form of these two boys and the top of one paw and bottom of the other gives it another dimension. The raised paw gives one the impression that he is ready to slap his brother if things get nasty that side.

ACR basics
PSCC14 - WB, lum masks, sat adj layer, small amount of burning

C&C welcome as always and thank you.

1d Mk IV - 300mmf2.8 Mk II
ISO 800 - f16 - 1/80 sec - bean bag

[Douglas Bolt]

I like the paw. The image might benefit form an adjustment to separate the subject from the background. They both seem to have the same tone and therefore blend together. Maybe blurring the background would help. Or, darken it.

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Carl - I love that raised paw. Any chance you zoomed in on it and created a few images? There's a cuteness factor with one cub using the other as a pillow. I agree with Douglas about trying to separate the lions from the bg a bit more both tonally and visually. The image also seems a bit crunchy to me. I'd back off on the sharpening. I'd like to see your other versions too.

TFS,
Rachel

[Jonathan Ashton]

AN interesting version, I was googling around recently and noticed Morkel had a similar shot in one of his blogs and he applied a negative clarity mask to the background in one image, I think that may help in this one.

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Carl, a tender/cute moment captured, although perhaps some parts are less flattering, LOL. :w3

My first impression was the conversion was done through NIK and it was one of the options, however not the case. Viewing the image I do feel that all the elements are fighting with one another and so there isn't the separation require between subject & BKG and that everything has the same tonal value. Might be worth posting the same image & crop, but in colour and so others can chime in with some help & advice in other options/direction for the B/W conversion. I do feel the image can work, but for me as presented, it's just a little jarring, sorry.

Good to see you trying/diversifying in new areas, it's a great way to learn. :cheers:

TFS
Steve

[Mark Needham]

Hi Carl -- Love the interaction, raised paw, and sleepy face. Agree with the other comments about the BG / separation, sharpening, etc. A strong vignette to darken the BG and some negative clarity / blur would go a long way here. Looking forward to seeing a RP and what you do with this one because like Steve said, this one can work.

[Andre Pretorius]

Hi Carl

You mentioned the "arty" feel..
Here are your boets..
Went a bit over board, lightening the whites and darkening the blacks, pushed up contrast on subjects and reduced on BG, some more layers..
WDYT?

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi Carl , i very much like what you captured in the field .
Lovely scene and nice comp .
But sadly , i am just harsh now , your conversion destroyed the emotional looking scene somehow , for me .
So this does not work for me , sorry to say that . I think you can handle that :bg3:.

I would try another conversion or show the color .

TFS Andreas

[Carl Walker]

Thanks everyone for your input.
Rachel I think the crunchy look may be from techs I used as I did no sharpening in the raw file or until the output session for save for web at 65 and radius 0.3:bugeyed:.
When I say techs I mean the ss of 1/80 sec perhaps. We were there for so long that we had ample time to try out so many different variations of settings for whatever reasons and IQ maybe not as good as I originally thought. I remember trying the dof settings ranging from F7,1 right through to f22 - reason being I wanted to find the sweet spots that might work for me.:2eyes2:

Andre I quite like what you did here and thanks for the work you put in. Welcome as always mate

Steve thanks - I agree with the separation issue and pre posting knew this would come into it but I still like it - personal preference but do take on board what everyone else sees.

Andreas :w3 I am emotionally disturbed that this conversion has had such a catastrophic effect on you!!

I am reposting here with a different conversion and a colour one as well. On both I have this time applied a little Nik detail and used your suggestion Jonathan re Morkel's technique that I also recently discovered- thanks.

[Carl Walker]

As discussed in previous posts the was a lot of different lighting conditions during this observational period. Seems kind of ridiculous in hindsight to have chosen an image shot at f16 if i wanted the bg blurred - kind of!!!!!!!

[Gabriela Plesea]

Dearest Carl,

How is your Sunday morning? Are you by the computer?

I love those boys of yours so much and would really like to see them again! Even now as I sit at my desk and look at your image I am wondering, where would they be right now and what are they doing...

I was looking at your B/W conversion the other day and was hoping to see you this Sunday to chat to you about it, I too am experimenting with conversions right now and it would be interesting if we put our minds together and played with a couple of images (are you around? Andre tried to get hold of you this morning but did not succeed, we wanted to invite you for a cup of coffee...). I did recognise some Nik elements there, thought you might have applied the effect overall? I think Nik needs to be applied sparingly and only in such areas that really need that extra detail, eg. paws, dots on the muzzle, those fine hairs around the ears, small things. When applied overall the effect is a bit overwhelming.

I really like a high contrast B/W image, and this morning I have been reading a bit on how it's done - basic stuff but I am trying to create some kind of workflow instead of working erratically and going back to adjust things all the time. Some nice tips in Scott Kelby's CS5 book, if you have it.

Should you ask me what I do not like in your conversion, I would say "too much grey and not enough Black and White", the two subjects seem to have undergone the same treatment as their surroundings and the image as a whole has a rather mottled appearance. I absolutely adore the pose, the "less flattering bits" add a humorous touch to the whole scene, I just think there's so much detail there and this image deserves a re-work, perhaps a completely different approach?

Carl, I often have a vision of what the final image should look like from the moment I aim the lens at my subject, the trouble comes when I realise I am unable to process in such a way that the final product is close to what I had in mind:tinysmile_shy_t:. I have given you my thoughts on this image and I am not saying I can do it better, I would just like you to try something different here, how about increasing the exposure and the blacks to get a bit more contrast on the subjects, darkening the BG, etc?

Chat soon, give us a call if you wish to pop in!

Affectionately,

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi Carl ....... your such a big guy with a great heart and strong personality think you will not end up crying in your pillows tonight :w3, so i will go on with my way !!!
Your B/W Rp works way better , all saying this as a personal view .I actually prefer the color version. I just think you have to watch the blacks , too solid , even if only small portion of the image , i think it is necessary to watch them before final downsizing and look that they do not touch the LHS of the histogram .
At last step you can push them as far as you like , but even by applying the last sharpening step you plug the blacks , because every sharpening tool is plugging the blacks and blowing the whites if not tamed in the end .
I just cleaned up the BG a bit in a dirty way (just for illustration ) for a bit more separation and softened it . Plus i reduced the orange /yellow component in HSL .

WDYT ?
How do you get along with the 1 Dx , any proceed in terms of handling this beast ?

Great sunday , cheers Andreas

[Andreas Liedmann]

Ooops wrong image up, here you go my version

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Carl - Another vote for the color version and I like what Andreas has done to it.

:cheers:,
Rachel

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Carl, would agree that f/16 was not ideal, especially in relation to the BKG, however we are where we are and I think you will remember next time, so a good lesson learnt. Also you need space between the subject & BKG, with a lens that will also 'compress' things i.e. 500.

Can I ask, was the original B/W done based on the colour version posted, as I do feel the it is very contrasty and the colours in part, also very harsh/rich and would have expected them to have been a lot softer and so both versions look a little 'pushed' and perhaps due also to Contrast & Clarity sliders? I also think you have to be very 'selective' when choosing/going to B/W, as the colours can again be less sympathetic to the conversion and so it's the tone you are looking for and depending on your route, a nice spread of quarter, half and three quarter tones, obviously not if you perhaps go for hi key. Remember colours will change the B/W tone, change your colour image to B/W vis PS and then move the sliders, see what say Yellow, Blue, or Green do and the tonal effect.

Carl I took you colour version and converted it to B/W address some of the Contrast & Exp more to where I wanted it to go (personal choice), trying to retain the main qualities of the image, created about 8 different tonal layers with masks so you 'build' the image, so many people go to NIK, click a button and think that's it, fine, but who is in charge, the photographer or the software? I also tried to knock back the BKG in weight of tone then added a slight tilt blur just to soften the transition, masking is poor, but 256 colours and a small image... I also slightly darkened the FG so you have a layering feel/transition, I hope.

This is just my take, all I'm saying is, be the driving force, understand the 'recipes' you pick up, use & apply, as they ALL have a 'cause & effect' IMHO.

Hope it helps Carl. :cheers:

[Carl Walker]

Thanks Gabriela. I hear you and have been trying various options today but now going to give this a break for a bit and have another look later. Agree there is a bit too much grey.

Andreas thanks for the repost and stuff to look out for. I had already reduced the yellows/ reds quite a bit. Difficult to come to a balanced mid point sometimes regarding the saturation or contrast colour issues. I try as much as possible to keep it as seen at the time of capture.I do tend to forget to check these these particular items in pp work near the end occasionally. The 1dx coming along great but still learning the beast.

[Carl Walker]

Thanks very much Steve. This is what I was hoping for in getting some direction with regards to B&W stuff.
Yes it was done based on colours posted.
Thanks for the good advice as always and I will definitely try to work it in the way you are suggesting. Choosing the right image is I guess, also important. Thank you:cheers:

[Steve Kaluski]

Choosing the right image is I guess, also important.

Hi Carl IMHO, that is the first step and the key foundation stone, as not all images are happy to be converted. :S3:

[Morkel Erasmus]

Hey Carl - you received some good builds here regarding processing and fieldcraft already.
I would say the BG here wasn't suited to the conversion as it really competes with the subject, especially at f16...
That being said, using layers to convert and running various colour filters on them to get drastic tonal separation between the lions and the grass would be my direction on this.
I do like the colour version more, specifically Andreas' repost. :cheers: