View Full Version : Advice needed

Wendy Kates
11-02-2014, 09:12 PM
This is an image of the skylight in the Basilica of the Annunciation in Nazareth. I realized when I post-processed it that it was slightly off center, but it was such a tight image that when I rotated it I lost part of the image that gives it depth. So I'm posting both the rotated and unrotated images for your input. Is the unstraightened aspect of the unrotated image a distraction, or is it worth keeping in order to achieve maximum depth? Any additional comments about the image(s) are also welcome.

Wendy Kates
11-02-2014, 09:13 PM
Okay...here is the rotated image.

Don Railton
11-03-2014, 04:42 AM
Hi Wendy, the straightened image works best for me. I think the symmetry you pick up by rotating far outweighs any loss depth you were referring to... Very sharp and nicely exposed, well done..


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Hazel Grant
11-03-2014, 07:39 AM
I agree with Don.

Andrew McLachlan
11-03-2014, 08:52 PM
Hi Wendy, I agree with Don in that the rotated image works best. I would like to see a wider view of the scene if you have one...I'd like to see the full octagonal shape within the frame.

Wendy Kates
11-03-2014, 09:30 PM
Thanks, all, for your input. Unfortunately, my lens wasn't wide enough to get the full octagon, and of course, rotating it to straighten it removed the inner edge of the octagon completely.

Dvir Barkay
11-04-2014, 01:55 AM
Its a beautiful church was there less than a year ago, agree that the second image works best.

Dennis Bishop
11-04-2014, 12:13 PM
Wendy, why not do both? Well, sort of. I did a quick Transform with Warp mode engaged. (I have no reluctance doing that for my OOTB images but don't know how it's viewed in the other forums.)

Diane Miller
11-04-2014, 03:43 PM
Very nice, Wendy! And just what I was thinking, Dennis. I don't see any objection to it -- we often don't realize how much our lenses distort things. Which way is "right?" The whole idea of a view cameras, or the newer tilt-shift lenses, is to give us this kind of possibility.

Wendy Kates
11-04-2014, 07:09 PM
I like what you did, Dennis, but I'm having difficulty duplicating it. Can you describe exactly what you did in warp mode?

Re: the issue of warping images in general: my understanding is that warping interpolates existing pixels to create new pixels. If I were to enter a such a photo in a competition, wouldn't it be disqualified for that reason?

Dennis Bishop
11-04-2014, 08:16 PM
I can tell you in general terms what I did, but it's a dynamic process with tweaks in opposite directions if you want perfection. (I could give you my philosophy about warping and photo competitions. However, I rarely enter any competitions, and I imagine the rules vary from one to another.)

It sounds like you know how to get to Warp mode. Before I even go that far, I do two preliminary things. One is a best guess of how much space to leave around the image. I try to err on the side of too little rather than too much. The reason is that I want to clearly be able to see how much distortion I'm getting. If you pull one of the nodes off the screen, no harm is done because you really don't have to use the nodes (more on that soon). The other thing I do is to pull lots of guides into the image, lining them up with various details in order to tell when I have things warped the right amount. Whether to use verticals, horizontals, or both depends on the image. In this case I used six -- two each on the vertices of the octagon. For the French village scene I posted recently in OOTB, I used both, but mostly verticals.

When you first enter warp mode, there's a dot at the end of each grid line and one at each corner. I used to think there was something magic about them but soon learned I could ignore them. You can "grab" anything within the white lines. Even when you've done a lot of warping and some of the white lines are beyond the edge of the image, as long as the cursor is within the lines, you can warp the image. Because this image would be rotated clockwise if you were rotating it, I warped things down on the right side and up on the left. In an image like this, in which you took the photo standing pretty much midway between the two sides of the octagon, it makes sense to warp about the same amount on both sides but in different directions. (I honestly don't know if it's necessary to pay attention to the little Reference Point Location symbol near the left end of the Transform control panel. As far as I can tell, it doesn't make any difference in warping.)

When I start warping, I watch what's happening across the whole image. The guides help a lot with that. Moving one part of the image might affect something you don't want to, so it's a trial-and-error proposition. I start with rather coarse changes and refine them as I go along.

Don't hesitate to ask for more if this doesn't get you where you want to be. You'll get better with experience, but starting out with as much as you can is a good way to go.

Wendy Kates
11-04-2014, 10:13 PM
Thanks, Dennis...this is very helpful.

Morkel Erasmus
11-11-2014, 03:39 PM
Late to this one, Wendy, but it sure is an interesting thread. Thanks for your inputs Dennis! I prefer your "warped" version.