Birdsfoot trefoil

[Ron Conlon]

My wife spotted these growing in a lawn while we walked back from the grocery store this evening. She thinks finding wildflower subjects for me will limit my beheading of flowers in our garden. I don't know if that is working, but I certainly appreciate her pointing out flowers as pretty as these.

lightbox with a background and remote flash, tripod, D5100 200mm 1/200 f/20 ISO 100

[Joe Senzatimore]

Beautiful color in the flower. Might tone down the BG a bit.

[Diane Miller]

She found you a great one here! This is a stunning find, beautifully composed and the blush of pink in that one flower is the grace note!

But as much as I like the colors, they strike me as a little too much of a color cast. Did you play with the initial color temp in raw conversion? There may be an alternate version to be found there.

[Ron Conlon]

Diane, I believe the colors are accurate. I was amazed at the colors when I looked closely at these.
Joe, I think you have a point there.

[Diane Miller]

But Joe and I are saying the same thing. How are you going to tone down the BG unless you mask the flowers? They are too close to the same color. And I was suggesting looking at a very subtle shift.

[Ron Conlon]

Diane, the background is artificial, so I understand that it may not suit the subject--my interpretation of Joe's comment--I could switch it out. I don't mess with the colors too much in post except to tone them down by setting the camera calibration in ACR to camera neutral. Not to say that there isn't a cast. What direction of color or nature of cast do you see?

[Diane Miller]

Ahhhh -- OK -- I didn't realize this was in your light box. (Not famous for reading the fine print.) But nonetheless, as cast is a cast. The camera isn't always accurate, and the more monochromatic the subject, the less accurate it is. Camera Neutral is a good idea and usually a good start, but then playing with the Temp and Tint sliders after that are always good. The camera doesn't record what it "real" -- it can only make a guess about color temp. But maybe here it's just the way this BG is. Not being critical so much as tossing out food for thought.

I do love it -- but my color-correctness awareness (sort of like political-correctness, only different) sees it as a pretty strong yellow cast. But maybe with a BG so close in color, that's just the way it is. I was assuming (as the casual viewer would) outdoor light and grass for a BG.

I do think the composition is awesome, though, and the yellows are not a fatal flaw.

[Diane Miller]

The problem with color casts is that they reduce contrast. Here's a quick run thru Nik CEP's Pro Contrast, with the Reduce Color Cast slider. Not any more accurate than anything else, but just a comparison -- and better done in raw conversion. The flowers are a more subdued color but look at the difference in contrast and the separation from the BG. Dramatic. Wish I could post an animated GIF here, but download both and stack in PS and click the top layer on and off to really see the full impact.

From here the flowers could be made more yellow (retaining contrast) and the Bg more subdued.

[Ron Conlon]

Diane, I find your repost very pleasing, showing a better contrast between the petals and background. It works very well and I wish I had chosen background like that. Still learning...thanks!

[Ron Conlon]

I am trying to work through this and I think that I understand now. In the setup I used here, the yellow-green background is such a prominent part of the "box" that the flash bouncing around the box probably does pick up a cast from it, just like when you shoot in a sunlight spring forest. I guess that is why I have been favoring this background lately, because of the spring-like light it throws. I find many of my experiments with the lightbox and black background have a lifeless look that is not there when I shoot outside with ambient light, and the spring green background and the chartreuse cast it generates may have generated a little more life. I do like the quality of the light and the effect it generates, but for a yellow flower a greater contrast with the background would have worked better. So, perhaps, a setup that gives the light with the spring cast, but a different background? Some fresh lightbox experiments may be in order, I believe these are still blooming! Thanks for the feedback!

[Diane Miller]

But, Ron, that's exactly your same BG -- I didn't switch it out! Just made a very simple and completely global adjustment in colors. It brought out better contrast within the petals as well.

When a histogram looks like this one, it's a clue something isn't optimal.

The same thing can be explored at the start of a raw conversion. There's a reason the Temp and Tint sliders are right at the top (at least in LR/ACR). Color casts are something everyone has to learn to see, and the best way is with some tweaking to see the variations. But , like everything else, it's best done in raw conversion as much as possible.

[Diane Miller]

You posted at the same time I did so I just now saw it -- yes, you are probably getting some color off the BG, like gelling a flash. It is a gorgeous color, but the camera may not be setting the color temp ideally with such a monochromatic subject. You can change it in raw.

Would love to see more of these! You're quite right -- flat black isn't interesting.

[Steve Maxson]

Hi Ron. Another striking image! Nice detail in the yellows and the curving stem really makes the comp. Also, interesting comments and discussion above. I think Diane's repost with the less intense background has merit as an alternate presentation. Very nicely done!

[Diane Miller]

Just one more to show that the colors, although initially subdued, can be taken back toward yellow and still hold some detail.

I do love your BG color in the OP and would hate to lose it completely.

[Jonathan Ashton]

Wow lovely images here I love the lighting. I am also liking the flower head in the first image but equally so with those of Diane's repost versions. I am sometimes dubious about extra filters wondering if they are necessary as they sometimes seem to (me anyway) bring out too much detail i.e more than you might normally expect to perceive. Regards the background I would have made a mask and reduced the yellows somewhat - but that trick over using a different conversion is a good one and one I very often used to forget until Diane mentioned it a while back in a different post. When I play with the Tint sliders I usually make a pig's ear of it so I leave that alone!

[Diane Miller]

Tint is a sensitive adjustment and needs to be balanced carefully with Temp. I wish you could alt-click it (or something) and get a vernier scale. You can type in numeric values on the right, for more precision.

Getting global settings optimized in raw conversion is so important. PS should be for fine tweaking.