Lioness' thirst (C)

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

My first one for this month's theme. Taken with the main purpose of getting to freeze the action whilst the lioness was lapping up the water. Taken at a nature reserve closeby in midday sun.

D600, f/5, 1/1250s, ISO 320, 85mm. Nikon 24-85mm.

[Loi Nguyen]

Hi Tobie, excellent detail on the face and the tongue. The light is a bit harsh, but you knew that. I see a Red color cast here. May attempt to lighten up the shadow face a tad. Loi

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Tobie - Nice drinking pose and you handled the harsh light. Nice sharpness. Was it possible to get a lower pov since this is a captive animal? I also see a heavy red cast and would substantially reduce the reds. I might also drop the yellows slightly if it were mine. Then I would open up the midtones in a levels or curves adjustment.

TFS and for participating in this month's theme,
Rachel

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Rachel / Loi, thanks for your replies! I also thought the cast was a bit red, but thought I'd wait on my co-form members' feedback. Rachel, 'Captive' in this case means lions in a camp of about 1km x 1km. In other words they're not 'caged'. I knew they tend to usually come for a drink at this pool about 30 minutes after having a meal, so I waited for them right next to the hole in my car (used a beanbag in my car window). Here is my next take (further comments welcome).

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138406&d=1393782564

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Tobie - the color of the rp looks better. I would still open up the midtones.

Rachel

[Nancy Bell]

I also like the colors of the repost better, and agree with Rachel's suggestion of opening up the midtones more. You did achieve your goal of freezing the lapping action and got nice details in the water. Where is SA is this nature reserve? I am visiting family in Cape Town next month and wonder if it is nearby.

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

I also like the colors of the repost better, and agree with Rachel's suggestion of opening up the midtones more. You did achieve your goal of freezing the lapping action and got nice details in the water. Where is SA is this nature reserve? I am visiting family in Cape Town next month and wonder if it is nearby.

Thanks Nancy! It's the Krugersdorp Game Reserve which unfortunately is about 1,500km from Cape Town (per road). For the same reason I'm not too familiar with the CT area as far as game reserves are concerned but maybe some of our other SA forum members can advise (or obviously your hosts?).

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Hi Tobie - the color of the rp looks better. I would still open up the midtones. Rachel

Thanks Rachel. I've tried but I did not like the results - the contrast between the lioness' face & surroundings went down the drain. But I'll try again. I might start all over, using a different WB.

(PS: I still like the 1st pic more in terms of overall IQ)

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Brought some color back, raising Lights under mid tones (Rachel). Not feasible to raise Darks.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138446&d=1393828018

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi Tobie,
nice drinking pose with good details.You handled the harsh light quite well .
For my taste you have not sorted out the color "issues" yet, still try to practice…….
Contrast is too high in the last RP with blown highlights and plugged blacks.
Not sure if you can make this image really work.

TFS Andreas

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Hi Tobie,
nice drinking pose with good details.You handled the harsh light quite well .
For my taste you have not sorted out the color "issues" yet, still try to practice…….
Contrast is too high in the last RP with blown highlights and plugged blacks.
Not sure if you can make this image really work.

TFS Andreas

Thanks for your reply Andreas. I'm always prepared to try. I've reduced the highlights from 0 to -25, brought contrast back to 0 and the blacks back to 0. The result is then almost identical to the 1st image. Not even worthwhile to post it.

[Andreas Liedmann]

Tobie, you stated in another thread you are not willing to invest some time in an image , 30 sec if i remember correctly, this is an image i think , where you have to make a bit more work, otherwise it is just simply not working.
Personally i am not a fan of LR highlight recovery , just simply not working properly for my eyes. There are other ways to recover the HL if they are not blown in each and every channel.

Andreas

[Anette Mossbacher]

Hi Tobi,

I agree with Andreas totally. I will add a RP for you that you see what you can do and I assure you it can be done in LR. You need to use the brush, for everything a separate brush. You cannot brush, like say now the head and address all at ones. That usually does not work. This is how you start up in learning. You need to find your way and we only can help you in this to find it. It took me ages in here till I got this and that and still did not reach the end, if I ever!
Practice, get the same image, start from scratch. My RP gives you a start up, how it can look! Sometimes highlights to address with the highlights slider in LR does not work very good, than go and find other sliders which can address the prob. Try them all out, pull them to both ends and watch what they do and be selective with the brush, that helps :w3

PS take my RP in LR that you see the difference in there! And don't miss to add more contrast in yours, my RP was done very fast andI did not address much of that. That's your part for your RP :bg3:

have a great eve and I am looking forward to a RP

Ciao
Anette

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Tobie, you stated in another thread you are not willing to invest some time in an image , 30 sec if i remember correctly... Andreas

Nope, never said that Andreas. Here's my exact words: "I usually spend about 30 sec's per pic in LR unless I need to do something out of the ordinary (like removing large objects etc) in which case I'll jump to PS.". I'm sure I'm not far off when I believe that just like me, all photographers spend the minimum time on each pic after a photo shoot, first identifying 'keepers' and then put in more work on those. Please remember you have a pic in your mind which you would like me to get to. I don't have that same pic in my mind so I simply react on what you experienced photographers recommend. I thus value each remark highly and go back to the drawing board with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. If someone does not follow up on that any further, I respect that because we all live busy lives demanding its own share of time. Same with you. Thanks for your reply.

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Hi Tobi,

I agree with Andreas totally. I will add a RP for you that you see what you can do and I assure you it can be done in LR. You need to use the brush, for everything a separate brush. You cannot brush, like say now the head and address all at ones. That usually does not work. This is how you start up in learning. You need to find your way and we only can help you in this to find it. It took me ages in here till I got this and that and still did not reach the end, if I ever!
Practice, get the same image, start from scratch. My RP gives you a start up, how it can look! Sometimes highlights to address with the highlights slider in LR does not work very good, than go and find other sliders which can address the prob. Try them all out, pull them to both ends and watch what they do and be selective with the brush, that helps :w3

PS take my RP in LR that you see the difference in there! And don't miss to add more contrast in yours, my RP was done very fast andI did not address much of that. That's your part for your RP :bg3:

have a great eve and I am looking forward to a RP

Ciao
Anette

Anette, thanks for your reply and the effort you've put into this. I have never doubted the fact that I'm on a heavy learning spree and that I won't "know it all" very soon. In this particular case I'm trying to portrait what I've seen on the day of the shoot and my 1st pic is very close to that. If there are technicalities which I'm missing (high reds etc.), I appreciate your guys' input so I can address them. With one prerequisite: it must still look like the original scene! Keep in mind that this pic was taken at the end of August last year which was just before spring on our side of the globe. Thus: the driest and dustiest time of the year in an area of bright red soil in which these animals roll and live. I can thus understand if there's a red cast on the scene (I've had the same problem with my wild dog thread) and I'm prepared to lift it somewhat, but not so much that it changes context.

As mentioned to Andreas every single person has a different 'final' pic in his/her mind. I most likely don't have the same 'final' pic in mind as you guys so I can simply base my RP's on your recommendations. Your version is ions away from what I've seen on that day, but as you've mentioned - it was just a quick job. Thanks again for spending time on it!

(PS: I have actually started from scratch with my latest RP posted)

[Anette Mossbacher]

Toby, when you portray the lioness in OP as it looked like that day fine with me.

Have a nice day

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Toby, when you portray the lioness in OP as it looked like that day fine with me.

Have a nice day

Thanks for your comment, Anette! Much appreciated!

[Andreas Liedmann]

Dear Tobie in your WildDog thread you stated in Pane 27 that you spend 30 sec per image in LR, unless you do something extra ordinary in PS like removing large objects etc ………:eek3:. True or not...

Please go back and review your own writing or comment, nothing to add more from my side ……..

Cheers Andreas

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Dear Tobie in your WildDog thread you stated in Pane 27 that you spend 30 sec per image in LR, unless you do something extra ordinary in PS like removing large objects etc ………:eek3:. True or not...

Please go back and review your own writing or comment, nothing to add more from my side ……..

Cheers Andreas

Andreas I don't have to review - see in my previous reply to you where I've quoted my exact statement. Please take note of the word 'usually' in my quote. I'm not sure where exactly you're going with this but in the future please refrain from replying to any of my threads because apparently you have difficulty in focussing on - and staying in - the spirit of what a forum like this is about. There are lots of pleasant, helpful and knowledgable members aboard and you're spoiling it all. Thanks so much!

[Andreas Liedmann]

Thanks Tobie , will follow your wish with great pleasure :w3.

Cheers Andreas

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

I think I'll wrap this up with this version (colours adjusted in PS):

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138508&d=1393951509

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi folks,

Let's keep it civil and on topic please.

[Morkel Erasmus]

Late to the party here, Tobie.
In terms of composition and presentation - this photo isn't doing much for me personally (though the tongue lapping water is nice). I do appreciate you participating in the theme and spending as much time as you can to hone your fieldcraft and processing skills. That will bring you a long way.
I think your last repost is suffering from a yellow cast this time :w3. I take your point about the dry season and the dust they are covered in, but remember also that the camera sensor picks up a lot of light reflected off other surfaces and renders slight colour casts. A good example is the classical leopard in a tree with loads of green foliage/leaves around it. Invariably the leopard looks green, especially in the whites. This is because the sensor of the camera picks up on the reflected green light off the shiny leaves.

Now to my other question - do you have a straight-up portrait of this gal, looking down your lens?

PS: the more I learn about processing and the power thereof, the more time I tend to spend on individual images :Whoa!:

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

[snip] I think your last repost is suffering from a yellow cast this time :w3. [snip] Now to my other question - do you have a straight-up portrait of this gal, looking down your lens?

Thanks for your comment, Morkel. Looking back at it from my laptop at work (which I've calibrated) I must agree - must remember to calibrate my LR/PS laptop at home too! :e3 I think in that case I'll hang on to my OP...

I do have a straight-up portrait of her taken at a different occasion when I've had my first DSLR for about a week or so. I was still mega-green behind the ears so the focus left a little to wish for. I need to go back and hope that this time she's nice to me again and look me straight in the eye (I'm tempted to try a different POV by placing my camera on the ground next to the car and using wi-fi, but I'm scared that she might think it's a souvinir and walk off with it)! :S3:

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Tobie, a little late to the party and I think all has been covered.

However for me I think your post in pane 4 is the better version, but Anette has addressed the overall image, so I guess it a combination of the two, but yours looks like it's carrying more magenta than red.

If you get the right exposure, maximising the full tonal range without clipping the white & blacks will give you the best platform, so keep looking at that Histogram, not the back of the screen, use that for comp. Once you get the WB/Colour balance right then 'build your image accordingly, but without PS I think you could struggle, but you & I have had this conversation before so lets not cover old ground. Each image will vary in the time spent, but I would occasionally step away from an image and look at it afresh later, as sometimes it can give a clearer picture and you sometimes see the obvious, missed in the initial PP work.

PP work is just as important as taking it. :w3

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

[snip] I think your post in pane 4 is the better version, but Anette has addressed the overall image, so I guess it a combination of the two, but yours looks like it's carrying more magenta than red. [snip] but without PS I think you could struggle [snip] I would occasionally step away from an image and look at it afresh later [snip]

Thanks for your invaluable feedback, Steve. I think stepping away from - and returning to - an image is excellent advice as one tends to get into a rut if you struggle with it for too long. I'm booked for a PS course & workshop (:5!!!) in the next 2 weeks. I know it's just the beginning of a long journey but maybe I'll be less of a PITA soon! :w3 Anyway, I'll then come back to this image (and some of my others) after these classes so I have not closed the book on it yet...

I have come to the conclusion that due to the extremely high standards set by the members on BPN (which is a good thing!) it would be very difficult for any BPN member without proper pp skills to slot in optimally and I appreciate the pressure it places on myself to get those skills up to scratch.

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Yellows and Magenta lifted using PS 'Adjustment / Selective Colors' feature.

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138551&d=1394044382

[Steve Kaluski]

Tobie, like most things in life, it all takes time, and in parts, can be quicker than others, but you must be prepared that at times things can be frustrating.

PS seminars can be a little hit & miss, you need to separate the wheat from the chaff and ensure who is imparting the knowledge really is spot on, otherwise bad habits can creep in :w3. As I have said before, getting the grasp of the basics is key and in all honesty most of us use a small % of what PS has to offer, it really is a powerful tool. Also distilling the advice given is also part & parcel of the learning curve, as certainly the key members of the Wildlife Forum speak with knowledge, vision and ultimately can see the potential within the posted image, hence the great feedback. Looking at the image and realising/understanding what needs to be done will really help in your workflow, as you can target key areas to retrieve the depth & detail originally captured, quite often I will shoot an image in a certain way, because I know I can resolve things within the RAW/PP phase.

Steve

[Tobie Schalkwyk]

Thanks for your comment Steve - all of it duly noted! The PS course & workshop is presented by a local photo academy so I guess they won't appoint just anyone to present it.

Fact is the small % used from PS is an important % - it provides just that final boost to make a 'good' photo an 'excellent' one. And yes, getting behind the mindset and sharp eyes of the 'qualified' BPN members is very frustrating, but also very rewarding when I make progress from time to time!