Changing Perspective

[Ed Vatza]

Hey Mike, you asked! :) I was just getting ready to post this when you posted the following comment to my "Tickseed Revisited" post - "would like to see you experiment with some different angles of side views or backsides." I did a bit of experimenting over the weekend. Made some traditional straight on images and then tried working my way around the flowers looking for interesting angles. Here's one example. I believe it is from the Dame's Rocket family. If you would like to see a head on image, I will post one.

Used my Rebel XT; Sigma 150mm Macro; 430 EX Flash with Lumi-Quest Softbox on Flexible Bracket and all tripod mounted with a Novoflex Macro Focusing Rail.

1/20 sec at f/22; ISO 400; -2/3 EV; FEC -1

[Mike Moats]

Hey Ed, I think this comp works very well and nice to see you working the angles. I like the deep green in the BG, and a tad hot on the whites, but not bad. The hairs on the stem add a nice touch. It does look like a Dames Rocket.

[Robert O'Toole]

This angle is different and that is always good to try new views. The BG is clean.

I have to be sound like the bad guy but the light tones in the image are way off, the whites are really light gray at best (take a look at the Monitor cal strip at the bottom of the page). Also I wouldnt bother to mention the halos or the fact that the image is too tight, I think Ed is tired of hearing that.

Robert

[John Cooper]

Hi Ed - nice to see a different perspective here, but the white petals look a bit subdued on my monitor.

[Ed Vatza]

OK, I've got to respond here before heading off to bed or I will lie awake all night going over this in my head. Heck I'll probably do that anyway! :)

Let me take Robert's issues in reverse order. First off, Ed never tires of feedback so hopefully you don't tire of giving it. The "too tight" comment is a tough one. This is not a crop. I worked hard at filling the frame with this flower straight out of the camera. My intent was just that - to fill the frame. I feel I accomplished that and like the look. Obviously, I did not (and do not) think the image is too tight. I know you have looked at and responded to other images of mine where I left more room around the flower. I do what I think looks good. What concerns me here is the nagging question that maybe I am dead wrong. Maybe I don't have the eye for this. Maybe there is a reason why I am the statistician/researcher while my daughter is an artist and my son a budding philosopher. Maybe my left brain just dominates.

The second issue is halos. Yes, I start to go crazy over this one. Because I don't see halos. I see edges. If I look at it long enough, I think OK I see the halo - wait, no I don't. I have backed off on my sharpening and still you (and others) see halos that I don't. Again, is that my left brain at work?

And finally the whites. I see what you mean here. When I increased the exposure to 0 EV, the white were really blown. So I under exposed (-2/3 EV) and figured I could boost exposure in Lightroom. I did but it still isn't perfectly white. Since the comments from Robert and John, I went back and tried to kick up the exposure and whiten the whites. I have not been able to do much more without totally blowing out the whites. Any suggestions?

I feel like I am taking a crash course. I keep reminding myself that I have only been doing this macro photography for three or four months. I've felt like I've learned a lot and there is still a lot more to learn. Regardless of how dense I may seem at times, you feedback does help a lot. So thanks again.

[Dave Phillips]

Ed, IMO the jpeg compression is too high to see good tonality....the blotchiness is easily seen in the bg.
Might try saving orig at a higher quality....just a thought

[Robert O'Toole]

Let me take Robert's issues in reverse order. First off, Ed never tires of feedback so hopefully you don't tire of giving it.

Thanks for that Ed I was a little worried. You always have a great attitude and I really like that you like trying new techniques.




The "too tight" comment is a tough one. This is not a crop. I worked hard at filling the frame with this flower straight out of the camera. My intent was just that - to fill the frame. I feel I accomplished that and like the look. Obviously, I did not (and do not) think the image is too tight. I know you have looked at and responded to other images of mine where I left more room around the flower. I do what I think looks good. What concerns me here is the nagging question that maybe I am dead wrong. Maybe I don't have the eye for this. Maybe there is a reason why I am the statistician/researcher while my daughter is an artist and my son a budding philosopher. Maybe my left brain just dominates.

The guideline I like to use is filling the frame up to about 2/3rds. With current cameras even less is a good idea for many people since it allows you more freedom to compose later for people that dont want to make the decisions on cropping in the field.




The second issue is halos. Yes, I start to go crazy over this one. Because I don't see halos. I see edges. If I look at it long enough, I think OK I see the halo - wait, no I don't. I have backed off on my sharpening and still you (and others) see halos that I don't. Again, is that my left brain at work?

Its not the amount that is important but rather how the sharpening is applied. The edges are very prone to haloing so I recommend applying sharpening only where needed and never to the entire image. This is easily done with a quick mask or layer mask. I also think I tend to notice halos more easily than most people so that can be a factor :)



And finally the whites. I see what you mean here. When I increased the exposure to 0 EV, the white were really blown. So I under exposed (-2/3 EV) and figured I could boost exposure in Lightroom. I did but it still isn't perfectly white. Since the comments from Robert and John, I went back and tried to kick up the exposure and whiten the whites. I have not been able to do much more without totally blowing out the whites. Any suggestions?

This has alot to do with the surface of the petal. When you get to the last few levels of white, details disappear and only texture if any, remains. So if the petals are smooth, there will not be any detail or texture at all. So it can be tough to get a just right balance so that it doesnt look too bright or too dull.




I feel like I am taking a crash course. I keep reminding myself that I have only been doing this macro photography for three or four months. I've felt like I've learned a lot and there is still a lot more to learn. Regardless of how dense I may seem at times, you feedback does help a lot. So thanks again.

Thanks for taking to time to share your experiences and again for the positive attitude :) Keep up the good work and keep on trying new things.


Robert

[Alfred Forns]

Ed I think Dave has a very strong point regarding your image !!! Not sure why you chose to compress that much? Image size is 26.0 KB The maxim size is 200 KB Huge difference.

Cropping wise it is all a mater of taste. We normally like to have the image as Robert mentioned filling 75% of the frame. There a lots of time you want to fill the entire frame but in those cases you see the image all the way to the edge of the frame. Has a different look.

For the halos don't worry a lot since they are tough to see and lots of times I can't see them myself. I just try to be careful in my work flow.

[Ed Vatza]

Robert, AL and all the others,

I just want to let you know that I appreciate all you guys are doing providing feedback on these images. Keep it coming. Robert, I have another image I will post late tonight (once my 24 hours after "Five Bells" is up!) of another white flower (Star of Bethlehem) with a different perspective, more room (not as tight), better sharpening (without halos, I think :D) and hopefully a little less graying of the white. I will be curious to see if it is any better. I have two versions that I like for different reasons - one at f/14 and the other at f/5.6. I'll have to decide which to post.

[Roman Kurywczak]

Hi Ed,
It's great as others mentioned that you are trying new things! That is the only way that your photography will grow and judging by the replies here you also have an excellent attitude towards learning. Now about the image........for me it's not too tight:D! Go figure! I will agree on the whites.....but IMO not too bad and the Haloing is barely visible to me........tends to show more on dark BG's.........do look into increasing file size as this will help with the look......slight fill flash..even in camera would probably help the whites a bit in the final presentation.