Daga (means mud or clay) boy

[Carl Walker]

Found this old guy in the water midday. There were bees and terrapins bugging so he eventually got up and left. This shot shows a terrapin trying its best to get to the ticks on the buffalo's inner hind left leg.

Thought I might try a low key image here in this instance and try and get some comments to improve. Used Silver Efex Pro

Canon 7D - 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM MK II plus 1,4 extender @ focal length 200mm - Bean bag
ISO 800 - f8- 1/500 sec - Manual

LR5 basics
PSE 9 - LM, adj layers, sharpening--- added canvas on the bottom.

C&C welcome

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi Carl,
at first, did you mean high or low key, because if feel this a high key frame.I quite like the base image with the look up and the tortoise in the water.
I quite like the water, but i think the tonality and the contrast is not my cup in this image.I think it looks too gritty and is over sharpened .The lights are too light for my taste.

I would try a new version, with less contrast and sharpening, but would leave the water as is. For high key you should open up range and give contrast to the darker areas, for low key you should close down range and give contrast to the lighter areas in the frame.

TFS Andreas

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Carl - I'm not in love with the conversion here either and I do think you applied either too much structure or too much sharpening. I like the look he is giving you and that you have him nicely isolated in the waterhole. I think I would not have noticed the terrapin if you hadn't mentioned him. How about posting the straight ooc shot for us to take a look at other conversions (or you can send the raw via Dropbox if you prefer). I think it is definitely an image worth playing with.

TFS,
Rachel

[peter delaney]

Hi Carl

I have to agree with other comments about the conversion … just doesn't work at all. It is so flat tonal range wise I too would not have seen the terrapin without you mentioning. I think you may need to go back to the drawing board on this . Try and keep your conversion simple. Try and create a tonal range from black to mid tones etc. Don't push clarity/structure to far.

On the plus side you have a lovely image .. try and place more emphasis on your conversion on the water splash to draw your viewer in…

[edwardselfe]

I echo what's been said above. Let's see the original and perhaps some suggestions as to where to take it. Would also love to see a RP from you based on the above comments if you have time.
Ed

[Carl Walker]

I tried my best to follow everyone's suggestions. I decided to go away from what I thought was high key to what is presented. I darkened the BG/FG to try and emphasise the terrapin to draw some focus there but another lighter version seems good too. I used one of the presets on SE Pro and based this off that.

I started this from scratch in LR5 and did the conversion there and brought it into PSE to add canvas and LM's. I have not sharpened buff at all except at final stage after resizing at USM - 40% radius 0,4 and threshold 0

I cloned out a few terrapin heads.

It is interesting as I was working on this I found in the very next frame that the terrapin actually caught the bee above its head. Pity that it is a bit soft.

Hope there is some improvement here. If not let me know as always willing to learn. Thanks Andreas, Rachel, Peter and Ed for your input so far.

OOC image will follow this.

[Carl Walker]

No PP work at all here
Thanks

[Andre Pretorius]

Ooh yes!
So much more detail, no blown highlights, just enough contrast-- IMHO.

Love the bees around him.

Vote for RP!

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi Carl,
RP works a lot better , i would try to go really high key in the water and go darker in the buff ,to get a better separation and make the buff stand out dramatically .

Cheers Andreas

[Hilary Hann]

Love your repost, well done.

[Steve Kaluski]

Carl, based on the RP I think you can now push the whites & blacks at either end, basically a bit more in the whites & blacks so you try to achieve that full tonal range.

Techs look about rich and based on the original, adding the canvas has certainly helped and I like the position in frame.

TFS
Steve

[Carl Walker]

Is this too much?
Thanks All for the input again.

[edwardselfe]

Now this is just down to personal taste - you've done well to separate the buffalo from the water so it's now up to you to decide whether you like the effect or not!

Good job - it's hard interpreting other people's comments so I think you did really well.

Ed

[Rachel Hollander]

Hi Carl - I agree with Ed, with b&w there are a lot of ways to go and it's up to the individual which way to go (just look at the number of presets Nik Silver Efex has). Those who specialize in b&w can probably expand a bit more but what you most often see comments on BPN addressing are the tonal range of a b&w image. This includes whether an image spans the spectrum from dark blacks to bright whites, whether the particular image should span the spectrum, if the conversion is pushed in a particular direction but remains pleasing and whether any subtle toning such as sepia, coffee, etc have been applied. All of these are individual choices made by the photographer and as with most things artistic, there's no right or wrong answer, just what someone likes.

Since I had asked you to the post the straight ooc image I decided to have a very quick go at it.

Again, no right or wrong, just different interpretations and what is important is what you prefer.

Rachel

[Carl Walker]

Thanks Ed and Rachel. I guess you're right it is an individual thing. I do like your attempt Rachel. I am finding my second repost not really to my liking yet. Thanks for the effort here. Much appreciated

[Anette Mossbacher]

Hi Carl, I have read all comments. I like the RP in pane #12 the buffalo combined with the water in your OP :bg3:

Ciao
Anette