Used MKIV or 500/4 II?

[nrohrbacker]

I have been thinking about getting a used MKIV. I have also been thinking about the new 500/4 II. I own the 500 v1. I also have the 7D.
The things I don't like about the 7D are the AF hit rate and the noise. I find the 7D really needs good light. So, my thinking is, going to the new 500, I gain a lighter rig at 1.5lbs less.
Going to the MKIV raises my weight 1.5 lbs (1lb in camera + 1/2 lb of 1.4x tele). We also have the rumored 7DII on the horizon just to throw another fly in the ointment.

7D + new 500 = 9 lbs
MKIV + old 500 + tele = 12 lbs

My thought has been, the lighter the rig, the better control I will have for longer periods of time, thus yielding better images. The 500 II would also be the lense for the next 10+ years. Maybe I am answering my own question..

Anybody have any thoughts?

[Grace Scalzo]

I think that glass is always the better investment. Do you shoot hand holding most of the time?

[nrohrbacker]

Yes, always handheld, unless a groundpod or something.

[Gary Kinard]

I went threw the exact same thing. I went for the glass first. But I soon sprang for the Mark IV.
The AF on the 7D was killing me.

[nrohrbacker]

Gary, how have you found your MKIV vs. the 7D?

[David Stephens]

Since you're heavy into BIF and shoot mostly hand held, you'll experience the same AF issues with either lens and the 7D. I think that you should upgrade your body to either the 1D IV, 5D MkIII or the 1DX, or consider waiting for the 7D MkII. The MkII wait could be several more months. If they improve the 7D's high-ISO performance a bit and install the AF system from the 5D MkIII, it'll be a killer BIF camera.

The other advantage to all these alternative bodies is that they'll AF at f/8, allowing use of a 2X TC-III. I just installed the Firmware update on my 5D MkIII and tried out the 2X TC-III on my 500/f4 Series I. The first testing is very encouraging, tracking moving cars and people easily and quickly shifting from a nearby car to a corporate jet flying over at a couple of thousand feet. My next step is the Series II 500 and then either a 7D MkII or the 1DX, with my next YE bonus, hopefully.

[nrohrbacker]

David, I know I will upgrade my camera body in the next 12 months. My only problem with the MKIV is if I get one for $3k, then in the fall, say a nice 7dII comes out, then I believe the MKIV drops to $2k. Maybe what I do is just rent the MKIV on long weekends during the summer on certain occasions, it's only $100 in NYC where I work. From everything I have read it sounds like the series II lens really take advantage of the new AF in the 1DX and 5DIII ( and I assume the new 7dII). Decisions, decisions...

[David Stephens]

I know what you mean. I'd like to get back to a two-camera full-frame/crop set up, so I'm hoping that the 7D II really steps forward, but the 1DX may replace the 5D2. We'll see. The new Firmware update seems like a really good step forward on the 5D.

[Daniel Cadieux]

That would be a tough choice! Optically the two Canon 500 f/4s are similar and considered top of the game. The new one has better IS and is lighter and better balanced, so that is great for handholding. I've got one for my 7D now (and a 1.4 TC), and I have to say that I am quite happy with that combo, even in "bad" light. Having said this, I would love a MKIV as it is a better body, yes. Very noticeably? Not sure. Mileage will vary user to user. But better, yes. Good lenses are potentially lifetime investments for most of us, whereas bodies come and go.

[David Stephens]

That would be a tough choice! Optically the two Canon 500 f/4s are similar and considered top of the game. The new one has better IS and is lighter and better balanced, so that is great for handholding. I've got one for my 7D now (and a 1.4 TC), and I have to say that I am quite happy with that combo, even in "bad" light. Having said this, I would love a MKIV as it is a better body, yes. Very noticeably? Not sure. Mileage will vary user to user. But better, yes. Good lenses are potentially lifetime investments for most of us, whereas bodies come and go.

I'd be willing to guarantee that the MkIV is a better body for BIF than your 7D, as is the 5D MkIII and the 1DX. The biggest problem with the 7D is inconsistency of the AF system, particularly in AI Servo mode, which is a "must" for BIF. I own both the 7D and the 5D MkIII and I've shot the 1D MkIV. The later two blow the 7D into the weeds. Your keeper rate will double, at least. Also, you'll be able to shoot at f/8, so a 2.0X TC becomes a real option. Should you switch now? If you can, you might want to wait to see what the 7D MkII offers. If it gets improved high-ISO performance and the 5D MkIII's AF system, it'l be KILLER.

I'm not saying that the 7D can't produce some stunning images. Instead, I'm saying that for BIF, where critical, sharp focus is demanded more than almost any other genre of shooting, it's not as consistent as the mentioned alternatives in Canon's stable.

[Daniel Cadieux]

I'd be willing to guarantee that the MkIV is a better body for BIF than your 7D, as is the 5D MkIII and the 1DX.

Of course those expensive professional camera bodies are all better than the 7D, but the 7D is not as bad as suggested either. In any case if I had to choose either the new 500 F4 or a used MKIV I'd go for the lens (hey, I did!)

[David Stephens]

Of course those expensive professional camera bodies are all better than the 7D, but the 7D is not as bad as suggested either. In any case if I had to choose either the new 500 F4 or a used MKIV I'd go for the lens (hey, I did!)

"Not as bad as suggested" means different things to different people. If a keeper rate less than have as good is not considered "bad" to the buyer, then, by all means, buy the less expensive 7D and match it up with your $10,500 lens. Everything is a compromise to some degree.

[Marina Scarr]

I use the Canon 1D4 and the 500 V1 and am extremely happy with the results. You can buy a used 1D4 now for under $3,000 which is what I paid for mine a year ago. I will not give up the quality of the images, the AF capabilities and the high ISO of this camera for a little more reach and less weight of the 7D.

[Chris Cooke]

Cameras come and go good glass goes on forever. Bang for the buck the 7D is King! David if you persist and buy Artie's and Arash's guides and Practice and practice the 7D will surprise, I have ordered another 1DX (I sold my first (It cost me $8000 here in Aus. they are down to $7000 now which is still dear but at my age as they say, "you can't take it with you" I still have my 1DIV and 1DMKIII both of which I love but I travel by motorcycle and weight and a high center of gravity have my 2 7Ds in my tank bag and lens (500 f/4 IS in my saddle bag and my 5DMKIII and 70-300 in my other saddle bag)

I am often amazed as the % of keepers from my 7D keeps going up I am really looking forward to the 7DMKII.

[nrohrbacker]

Great replies by all. I know the MKIV is better than the 7D. I can pick out an MKIV vs a 7D image 9 out of 10 times online. I do also agree that the lens purchase will be a great long term investment, or expense, depending on how you look at it. One aspect I do like about the MKiV is the ability to push the images. I have to be spot on with my 7D exposure. Not that I don't try to nail it, but we all know the action gets fast and furious sometimes with a variety of birds.

[Gary Kinard]

Cameras come and go good glass goes on forever. Bang for the buck the 7D is King! David if you persist and buy Artie's and Arash's guides and Practice and practice the 7D will surprise, I have ordered another 1DX (I sold my first (It cost me $8000 here in Aus. they are down to $7000 now which is still dear but at my age as they say, "you can't take it with you" I still have my 1DIV and 1DMKIII both of which I love but I travel by motorcycle and weight and a high center of gravity have my 2 7Ds in my tank bag and lens (500 f/4 IS in my saddle bag and my 5DMKIII and 70-300 in my other saddle bag)

I am often amazed as the % of keepers from my 7D keeps going up I am really looking forward to the 7DMKII.

Off subject but wanted to comment on Chris's post.
You sound like me... I rode two bikes until I got to **** old... Bought a 2006 Ultra glide, and 2006 BMW 1200 GS adventure. Sold both in 2010. Before that Harleys, Yamaha, Honda . Spent one night and half of a day hiking out of the desert with a broken shoulder ( GS threw me in a old creek bed ). Then gently laid down the Ultra on a trip to Big bend. Had to flag down a car to help me pick the Harley up... That was it for me. I took bin's with me and point and shoots. Used the tank bag on the GS for my camera and bin's. Lots of fond memories.

[David Stephens]

.... Bang for the buck the 7D is King! David if you persist and buy Artie's and Arash's guides and Practice and practice the 7D will surprise, I have ordered another 1DX (I sold my first (It cost me $8000 here in Aus. they are down to $7000 now which is still dear but at my age as they say, "you can't take it with you" I still have my 1DIV and 1DMKIII both of which I love but I travel by motorcycle and weight and a high center of gravity have my 2 7Ds in my tank bag and lens (500 f/4 IS in my saddle bag and my 5DMKIII and 70-300 in my other saddle bag)

I am often amazed as the % of keepers from my 7D keeps going up I am really looking forward to the 7DMKII.

I think that you're talking to me. I bought Artie's book when it first came out and taken over 80,000 shots with my 7D. Compared to the new generation AF, the 7D is inconsistant. Move from the 7D to the 5D MkIII and your keeper rate for BIF will double. I used to recommend the 7D, but with the new alternatives, I'm reluctant to suggest it to anyone that might use it a significant amount of time for BIF.

I too look forward to the 7D MkII.

[Chris Cooke]

Garry I am now on bikes 64/65 arround my age so don't give up.

My 2003 FZ1 and Suzuki Bandit 1250 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/cookie99/17361024x768.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/cookie99/media/17361024x768.jpg.html)

[nrohrbacker]

Daniel, if memory serves me correct you were using, or still use the 100-400 right? Did you have the 500/4 v1 before getting the v2?
I own the v1 lens. So would you spring for the v2 or the MKIV in that case? I rented the MKIV a couple months ago and posted a pick on here titled "Female Hoodie". That shot was underexposed by 1.2 stops. My 7D cannot push a file like that. Granted, I like to get it right in camera, but it's nice to know the technology can save me, from myself :)

[Daniel Cadieux]

Yes, I used (and still have the 100-400). I did not own, but had used a version 1 500mm f/4 on a few occasions.

It's hard to answer for you...I'm perfectly happy with the 7D and cannot understand how lowly it is regarded (that is for another discussion though!) but I had no 500mm so I sprung for the version 2 of that lens. If I already had the version 1 500mm lens I would likely have gone for a MKIV.

But then again, for handholding the 4 stop IS and the lighter weight of the new version of the lens is so nice to have....decisions!:t3

[nrohrbacker]

Yes, the light weight is great for handholding as I do most often. I don't bash the 7D like some have. I have some amazing pictures from it. I most likely would keep it as well even if I got the MKIV as I prefer the smaller size for family stuff. Thanks for your feedback.

[Charles Glatzer]

Bottom line...in this scenario the newer camera will increase your keeper rate, and image IQ more than the newer lens.

Chas

[nrohrbacker]

Thanks Chas. I will take possession of my "new" MKIV (<7,000 clicks) tomorrow! I am excited to start using it.

Thanks all.