Canon 7D & 500mm F4 IS focus question

[Simon Wantling]

Hi, I would really appreciate some help if possible. I've just made a significant investment for a 500mm lens to go with my 7D. Although I've not had the most ideal conditions for photography in the UK at the moment, I'm still struggling to get a really pin sharp image and seems a bit hit and miss if I'm honest. I wondered whether you could take a look at this screen shot taken from DPP at a 100% view. You can see the focus point is just off the eye and this image has no processing or sharpening at all so straight out of the camera. It was taken from about 6-7 meters away. To me this image looks terrible and very fuzzy and soft. From this can you tell what might be the cause. It does't look like motion blur or anything and I know the lens is fantastic, so could it be my camera body?

Am I expecting to much? The shooting details are ISO800, f5 ( was low light ), 1/500ss and it was on a bean bag.

Any help or advise as to whether you think there may be an issue would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Simon

[Corey Hayes]

Hello Simon

I have seen this on a 7D, 1Dmkiv and even a 5d mk3 though to a much lesser extent. One thing you can try is to see if your camera and lens is calibrated, I went 4 month with this problem until I found that my lens was front focusing.
I still get the problem though and my work around is to just shoot a lot of pictures.

[adrian dancy]

Hi Simon

I do not wish to be harsh. The light is very poor and there is no directional light which would aid in casting micro shadows to enable detail to present better. I would be very surprised if the bird was only 6 meters away. If my bio-metric data is correct the bird would, in full profile, span all the focal points from left to right (or thereabouts). The bird is not in a relaxed pose. It is in an eager pose. Finches and other song birds when excited are forever adjusting their feathers. The thin twig the bird is perched on will be moving slightly because of the bird, and possibly because of the wind (in Manchester you could bank on it!). Since you are using a bean bag and tracking the bird there is a possibility that your camera/lens was not perfectly still when making the image. Maybe your shoulder was in an uncomfortable position and therefore inducing shake. The depth of field is narrow. Your camera may require micro-focus adjustments. The upshot is that based on an image taken in these conditions it is difficult to assess if you have a problem with your gear and I have not yet exhausted all possibilities.

I agree with Corey. I would add that no matter how good your camera is, you are less likely to make a good image in these conditions. Great resolution in poor light just makes a more detailed dull image. I have seen some remarkably detailed low noise images taken in poor light but the images fail because of the poor light. If you are a going to shoot in poor light choose your subject well. A chaffinch is a bird defined by the vibrance of its colour and you need light to optimise it, in my humble opinion.

[Don Railton]

Hi Simon

I agree the image looks soft and out of focus slightly. My guess is micro adjustment is required. I would do some tests with the camera/lens set up on a nice rigid tripod and shooting a static subject. Do a search on 'micro adjustment' as there are a number of threads on this detailing how... I don't think the low light is the problem but that is easy enough to prove anyway...

DON

http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/microadjustment/

[Lene Nesheim]

Hi
Is this your first big lens? If so, there are a few thing to remember.
Air temperature difference(shooting out of a window, over hot surfaces, etc) will make images go soft.
Use proper long lens technique(high shutter speeds will not help).
Shooting trough windows at an angle will most often give a strange blur.

When shooting small birds I tend to do what others here have posted, to shoot a lot.

Lene

[Simon Wantling]

Thanks all for the feedback. Here's another image without any sharpening so shot on neutral. If I add a bit of sharpening in DPP then it comes into focus. I will check the lens calibration.

Maybe this is normal at 100% with no capture sharpening at all.

As for distance. I would estimate that these images were both taken at a max of 10 meters only.

[Jonathan Ashton]

Simon your images don't look a million miles out. If you want to know if your 7D and 500mm are focusing correctly choose a static target say a newspaper or ideally a photographic target. Set the camera to subject distance similar to the bird to camera distance. Using a cable release or self timer take images at full aperture then at 5.6 and f8. Provided your camera is perfectly still - say on your bean bag, you will soon see if your rig is focussing correctly.
NB ensure IS is on mode 2 not mode 1 (Assuming you have the Mk1 f4), also try a few exposures with stabilisation off.
Remember the raw file when in focus will look "in focus" but obviously not as sharp as a processed image.
Bird photography especially finches and tits can be very misleading sometimes you can get a sharp image at a slow shutter speed but usually not, generally speaking I am going for a minimum of 1/400 1/500 sec. and ideally faster. Don't be afraid to bump up the ISO , ensure you expose to the right and if you minimise cropping you will be pleased with the results.

[Simon Wantling]

Thanks a lot Jonathan. I've got tomorrow off so will try those as I want to get it sorted out ASAP. Interesting about the IS mode. Mine is currently on Mode 1. I need to check the modes as I assumed that mode 2 was for BIF. I've bought a Spyder Lenscal so will look a that.

Thanks

[Jonathan Ashton]

Thanks a lot Jonathan. I've got tomorrow off so will try those as I want to get it sorted out ASAP. Interesting about the IS mode. Mine is currently on Mode 1. I need to check the modes as I assumed that mode 2 was for BIF. I've bought a Spyder Lenscal so will look a that.

Thanks

You are welcome, mode 1 is for when you are hand holding and likely to be moving in multiple directions, mode 2 is more for panning and for use on a tripod. I leave my lens on mode 2 permanently. Sometimes it is possible for the lens to generate it's own movement when static when using mode 1. I use the Lens Align and found it very quick and simple in use. The only reservation I have is that the final result is a subjective judgement, nevertheless I am pleased with the results.

[Daniel Cadieux]

The 500mm f/4 is equipped with IS that you can use on a tripod on either mode (both version I and II of that lens) so that theoretically should not make a difference. The images you show are not "tack" sharp but properly focussed and they are quite easily sharpenable for web and decent prints. Make absolutely sure your lens and 7D are properly aligned...it can be surprising how just a tiny bit off can make a difference!

[Jonathan Ashton]

Dan I am pretty sure there are contraindications sited not recommending the use of IS mode 1 on bean bags and tripods - I refer to the Mk1 lens. I think Artie was one of the people I can recall who did not recommend this practice.

[adrian dancy]

Sorry post deleted

[Gary Kinard]

I had similar problems. It is maddening. I finally bought a 1D series camera and all went away. My 7D with small birds was rather hit with beautiful results. Miss all together, Or getting soft images like yours. Shoot in live view on a few objects to rule out lens issues. That first pic should be just cutting sharp. Wit the 7D.

[Loi Nguyen]

I'd also check if the focus ring is inadvertently moved due to the bean bag. Did you turn the tripod collar so that the barrel of the lens plus the collar give you support on the bean bag? Agreed that the image is soft.

[Steve Uffman]

My 7D needed something like a +11 microadjustment on one of the lens (even after Canon worked on the camerat) and various other adjustments on several other lens and combos. I had not been aware that different adjustments for different lens and combos was needed until something I picked up on this site. Well, it was work work to do but had a huge payoff for me....Otherwise, I would have dumped the 7D... but seeing others like Daniel C make such wonderful images with the 7D made me go through the effort.....glad I did as between my wife and I we still use that body as one of the 4 bodies we share when we travel. We use it with the 500 and other lens combos quite confidently now.

[David Stephens]

It could be micro adjustment, but the 7D's AF wanders in AI Servo mode. As mentioned earlier, the 1D-series are much better in this regard, as is the 5D MkIII. My keeper rate is 2X or more better with my 5D3 vs. my 7D. Take lots of shots and you'll find that 3 to 6 out of 10 will be super sharp. If you're lucky, a sharp one will have the eyelight and perfect head angle. If not...oh well.

[Steve Uffman]

It could be micro adjustment, but the 7D's AF wanders in AI Servo mode. As mentioned earlier, the 1D-series are much better in this regard, as is the 5D MkIII. My keeper rate is 2X or more better with my 5D3 vs. my 7D. Take lots of shots and you'll find that 3 to 6 out of 10 will be super sharp. If you're lucky, a sharp one will have the eyelight and perfect head angle. If not...oh well.

Gotcha...have not seen the AF wandering on my 7d but perhaps it has and I accepted the 3-6 supersharp performance as it was a big improvement once I did the micro adjustments...now the 5dIII and 1dx are indeed revolutionary in AF.....I find them both simply outstanding

[Daniel Cadieux]

...they are also 3X to 4X the price of a 7D!

[David Stephens]

...they are also 3X to 4X the price of a 7D!

Exactly. It comes down to what you're willing to pay to improve your keeper rate. Some will spring for the 1D-X to achieve the highert keeper rate possible, while others will put up with a lower keeper rate to keep the cost down.

I think that it's important for user to know what's actually happening. Until you use a body with a fast, more accurate and more consistent AF, you don't know what you're missing. You might still elect to go with a less expensive option. After a couple of years battleing the 7D, it really nice to move to the 5D MkIII and realize that all those unsharp images weren't my fault, but were typical for the 7D. (Yes, I still make my own errors without help from the camera).

People on this forum are spending $4,000, $6,000, $10,000 and even $13,000 on lenses. When you take such an investment and hook it up to a 7D, you need to realize what compromise you've made. I'm not saying you're wrong, but just realize what you're doing.

I was talking with a Nikon friend in the field this weekend. He's got the top of the line $8,000 combined with a Sigma zoom. He's experiencd and uses great technique, but most of his images are not as sharp as mine and he was bemoaning that. He's ordering a Nikon prime super-tele this week.

If I were going to compromise, it'd be on the body first and working with the best lens that I could possibly afford (they hold their value well) and then step up the body when I could afford it.

[Jonathan Ashton]

It's the old story of the law of diminishing returns, you have to pay a lot more to go a bit better.
I would however promote caution when considering the 5D Mk 111, I used one for a few weeks, I found that when it found focus it did indeed tend to keep focus better than the 7D. I would also point out that under difficult focussing conditions most if not all cameras will have difficulty in focusing.

I tried the 5D Mk 111 on short eared owls over grasses that did not offer much by means of contrast and I did not find the camera any better at all than the 7D, I also know people who used a 1D MkIV and they too had focusing problems in these circumstances.

I am not for one minute suggesting the AF system on the 7D is as good or better than the 1D MkIV or the 5D Mk 111 all I am saying is that will in general be better and no doubt it will continue to improve.

I sometimes think that when relatively inexperienced photographers see comments relating to latest models they could be easily misled into thinking the AF system is better than it actually is.

[David Stephens]

There's a lot of skill required to use a super-tele on any AF system and get the most out of the lens/camera combination. My results continue to improve, even after over 100,000 shots.

I DO agree that just because the 5D MkIII's AF system may be quicker, more accurate and more consistent than the 7D, many users are not going to be able to take advantage of that difference. There's a concurrent thread about a member renting a 600/f4 II for a weekend in the near future, moving up from a 400/5.6. I warned about not expecting too much for BIF, other than to discover the potential of that great lens. It's like a driver moving from a Toyota Corona to a Porsche GT3 and going to their first track day with the Porsche. The GT3 will certainly impress, but the ability to handle it is a learned thing that takes some time.