Canon 5d mkiii or 1DX

[Simon Wantling]

Hi, having now upgraded to a 500mm lens I may start think about upgrading my 7D. Any advice on where I should go next? The canon 5D mkiii or the 1DX. I'd really appreciate your advice.

thanks

[DickLudwig]

Quite a difference in price and weight. I'd rent both before making a decision.

[Ian Cassell]

I'll be following this with interest as I'm in a similar position. I'm really wondering if it is worth "upgrading" my 7D to a 5Diii. I can't afford a 1DX and don't know how much of an upgrade it would be to go to the 5Diii (or maybe I should just bank the cash and wait patiently for a 7Dii).

[nick clayton]

There was a similar thread last August, although it would be interesting to see how opinions may have changed since then. http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/101699-Canon-5D-Mark-III-or-1DX-for-birds

[Chris Cooke]

I too have a love of the 7D but bought 2 5DMKIIIs and am waiting for the 7DMKII. The 5DMKIII is a world apart from the 7D (which is undoubtedly in my mind the best bang for your buck on the market today) I always travel with the 7D and 5DMKIII and that covers all bases (get Arties Publications for the 7D and the MKIII if you buy one it beats the Manuals hands down,)

[David Stephens]

Views have changed since those early posts. See:
http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/eos-1dx-field-review-and-impressions/

[andresleon]

I had a chance to use a 5DMIII for a weekend some time ago. Although I was not able to shoot as much as I wanted, here are my overall thoughts on it. Keep in mind that using a brand new camera for just a couple of days, specially by a relatively new photographer like myself, is not a fair way to evaluate or provide recommendations. However, here they are in case you're interested.

Oh and again, my main focus was avian photography.

The 5D is definitively at another level in regards to overall image quality. Both cameras configured to faithful, the crisp colors and details captured by the 5D are truly outstanding. The 7D is very good, but the 5D is just at another level.

ISO performance is also a huge plus for the 5D. I saw no issues shooting at ISO 1600 or even 2000 with the 5D. This gave me a tremendous advantage in low light and still needed a fast shutter speed. 800 is the highest I will go using my 7D, and I still need to do a fair amount of work cleaning and reducing noise in Lightroom and my other tools. I didn't really have to do any noise reduction on images taken at 1600 with the 5D.

Although both cameras are built very similarly, there are some little details I really liked about the 5D. For example, the ISO button has a different feel than the other button. This allowed me to easily switch ISO settings without having to take my eye off the eye piece. I know that if you're very familiar with your camera you should be able to do that anyways, but I think that little feature was very useful. The camera mode also has a lock which prevents it from switching to another mode (Av or Tv) by accident. I am used to checking this because my 7D seems to like being moved to B for some reason.

Overall, the 5D is a bit heaver, and feels more solid than the 7D. Again, this is personal preference.

Did not have a chance to play with the in-camera HDR, but it seems like it would be a neat tool. Changing the number of captures for the HDR shots is also a huge plus!

The one thing that i found disappointing about the 5D was its focusing system. I tried the various modes and areas, but found that it did not focus or as fast as well as the 7D, especially on fast moving flying subjects. I also noticed that, even when the AI servo sensitivity set to low, it would lose focus while tracking subjects much more easily that the 7D. Again, having this body for just a couple of days is not enough to really give it a solid shot, but this is just what I found. I figured it would be easier tracking, following, and keeping in focus my subjects using a full frame sensor and therefore losing the crop factor, but did not see that in my practice.

Despite the focusing issue, I went ahead and bought a refurbished 5DIII from Canon. I now use it almost exclusively so I can get more practice with it. I still find that the focus is not as fast as the 7D. I must also admit that I am not an expert and therefore need a lot more practice.

[Chris Cooke]

andresleon

Congrats on your purchase you will not regret it.

Two bits of advice from my perspective, Arthur Morris (Birds as Art) writes his version of how to get the best out of both the 7D and 5DMKIII and I keep both his Pdf files on my Usb stick to review on my Acer Tablet in the field. I find the Manuals confusing whereas Artie writes as an active photographer and an ex teacher and I highly recomend that you look into buying his 7D and 5DMKIII publications I find them invaluable. He address's the focusing systems very clearly.

All the best and do your best to wear out your cameras as the best way to learn any new system is to use it to death. Keep using your 7D they are two different cameras and both have their plusses and minuses, learn them.

Take care
Chris

[David Stephens]

The one thing that i found disappointing about the 5D was its focusing system. I tried the various modes and areas, but found that it did not focus or as fast as well as the 7D, especially on fast moving flying subjects. I also noticed that, even when the AI servo sensitivity set to low, it would lose focus while tracking subjects much more easily that the 7D. Again, having this body for just a couple of days is not enough to really give it a solid shot, but this is just what I found. I figured it would be easier tracking, following, and keeping in focus my subjects using a full frame sensor and therefore losing the crop factor, but did not see that in my practice.

Despite the focusing issue, I went ahead and bought a refurbished 5DIII from Canon. I now use it almost exclusively so I can get more practice with it. I still find that the focus is not as fast as the 7D. I must also admit that I am not an expert and therefore need a lot more practice.

My experience is just the opposite, with the 5D MkIII's AF system being substantially faster, more accurate, consistent and flexible than my 7D. My keeper rate at least doubled immediately.

[Simon Wantling]

Sorry for the late replies on this, I've been away on business unfortunately. Thanks for all the great advice and comments on both camera bodies. I am very pleased with my 7D but I do have the chance to try a 5D mkiii very soon so I'll let you know what I think of it in a few days time. I also find the autofocus quite slow on the 7d especially in low light so it'll be interesting to see how the 5D compares.

thanks again.

[Steve Uffman]

My experience is just the opposite, with the 5D MkIII's AF system being substantially faster, more accurate, consistent and flexible than my 7D. My keeper rate at least doubled immediately.
agree completely with David on this...between my wife and I we have the 1dx, 5diii, 5dII and the 7D.....The 5dIII is an awesome camera in every respect. my first use was for eagles in Alaska this time last year. Very high keeper rate as David says. plenty on here can tell what AF strategies to use and how to set it up properly....I rented on for my wife when we went to Africa so I could help her with the technical stuff....I set her on Auto ISO and then would set the aperture and SS for her given the time of day and lighting and she did just super....In fact, often her images were at lower ISOs than mine which I set.

1dx is an awesome camera and the one I shoot most of the time..but the 5dIII is a stud and you won't go wrong.

[nrohrbacker]

I will throw my 2 cents in as well. I use a 7D with the 500/4 and the 300/2.8, but rented the 5D MKIII for a weekend. The MkIII can focus in the dark, as I did this in my living room with only light from an adjoining room billowing in. When I got to Nickerson beach to shoot the Skimmers and ostercatchers I found the AF to be, as another person posted , less than stellar. I thought it was me, and it may have been, so I went back to the car and got the smaller and lighter 300/2.8 + 1.4x. I still found the camera to be hunting too much. The high ISO is great, IQ etc., but I came away bummed that this was not going to be my next camera. I have come to the conclusion that big glass needs big batteries to properly drive them fast. So for me it is either the 1DMKIV or wait for the 7DII and hope for the built in grip with bigger battery as some rumors have suggested. Life is a compromise...

[David Stephens]

I will throw my 2 cents in as well. I use a 7D with the 500/4 and the 300/2.8, but rented the 5D MKIII for a weekend. The MkIII can focus in the dark, as I did this in my living room with only light from an adjoining room billowing in. When I got to Nickerson beach to shoot the Skimmers and ostercatchers I found the AF to be, as another person posted , less than stellar. I thought it was me, and it may have been, so I went back to the car and got the smaller and lighter 300/2.8 + 1.4x. I still found the camera to be hunting too much. The high ISO is great, IQ etc., but I came away bummed that this was not going to be my next camera. I have come to the conclusion that big glass needs big batteries to properly drive them fast. So for me it is either the 1DMKIV or wait for the 7DII and hope for the built in grip with bigger battery as some rumors have suggested. Life is a compromise...

Very interesting. My experience is just the opposite, with my keeper rate with my 5D MkIII being at least twice as good as with my 7D. I've now taken tens of thousands of bird images with both and don't think that my experience is a fluke. I've heard from others that they've had similar experience. I wonder if you rental unit was not up to snuff. I am using a custom AF setting now, but even on the very first day when I set it to program #7, it was immediately better.

I'm with you at being excited for the 7D2, but I'd bet that it's going to have the same AF system as the 5D MkIII.

[nrohrbacker]

david, yes, it could have been a fluke, or my bad technique :) I was playing with a variety of settings thinking that may have been it, but who knows. I only had it for a weekend. Most people who have used it over a period of time had very positive experiences. I agree, I think the new 7DII will have the new autofocus, better ISO, etc. If it was usable up to 1600 I would be very happy.

[David Stephens]

Totally agree.

[John Chardine]

My take on this interesting question:

I'll assume we are talking bird photography, which typically boils down to capturing images of small, active subjects from some distance. A primary requirement is to lay as many pixels as possible over your subject. The 5DIII lays more pixels on subject than the 1Dx, and for $2000+ less. Darn it, the 5DII laid more pixels over the subject than the 1Dx, and that model is ancient history. In my opinion, the 1Dx is a niche camera- designed for professionals on a tight deadline needing a super-high frame rate, ultra-fast AF and publishing to newspapers- printed or web- or to magazines which typically might need 3" x 2" image to print in one corner of a page, only rarely a two-page spread. This dictates relatively small files and consequent low pixel density- hence you have an 18mp FF camera, with fully half the pixel density of the FF Nikon D800. You can see where I'm going here. I think the 5DIII is much better value for money for the sort of photography we do.

[David Stephens]

In-focus pixels are way more important than pixels. If the photographer's technique is flawless and the camera still renders a high percentage of the images still slightly OOF, all the pixels in the world won't save an image. The 1DX will drive a super-tele lens better than ANY other Canon body. Look at Arash's web site to see the stunning work that the 1DX can produce. Before he owned the 1DX, if I remember correctly, Arash was concerned about pixels on the subject, but I think that he's gotten way past that.

[John Chardine]

David- I more or less agree with you but not with some of what you are implying. First, there is no evidence whatsoever that the 5DIII "renders a high percentage of the images slightly OOF". You didn't actually say this but you can see how the meaning of your statement could be taken this way. Remember Simon's original question regards the Canon 1Dx versus the 5DIII. Another implication in your post is that you seem to suggest that birds in flight photography is where bird photography begins and ends. It isn't. In fact, for all-round nature and bird photographers, birds in flight is a relatively small segment of the market. It is clear from postings on BPN and elsewhere that the 5DIII is a very capable BIF camera, an activity which arguably puts the most demands on an AF system. If it can do that small segment well (bit I agree probably not as well as the 1Dx), of course it can perform well for the rest, and majority, of situations.

Ultimately, my comment to Simon was one of value for money and I maintain that the 1Dx is not as good value for money as the 5DIII.

[David Stephens]

David- I more or less agree with you but not with some of what you are implying. First, there is no evidence whatsoever that the 5DIII "renders a high percentage of the images slightly OOF". You didn't actually say this but you can see how the meaning of your statement could be taken this way. Remember Simon's original question regards the Canon 1Dx versus the 5DIII. Another implication in your post is that you seem to suggest that birds in flight photography is where bird photography begins and ends. It isn't. In fact, for all-round nature and bird photographers, birds in flight is a relatively small segment of the market. It is clear from postings on BPN and elsewhere that the 5DIII is a very capable BIF camera, an activity which arguably puts the most demands on an AF system. If it can do that small segment well (bit I agree probably not as well as the 1Dx), of course it can perform well for the rest, and majority, of situations.

Ultimately, my comment to Simon was one of value for money and I maintain that the 1Dx is not as good value for money as the 5DIII.

I never said that the 5D MkIII renders more images OOF. This thread took a tangent where the 7D, which does, IME, deliver more OOF images than the 5D MkIII.

I've not shot the 1DX, but Arash and others I've read on other forums state that it has superior AF to the 5D MkIII, particularly the speed of manhandling lenses into focus, particularly with teleconverters attached. I do plan to borrow one from CPS soon, but I don't recall seeing a comparison of the 1DX and 5D2 keeper rates, but I suspect that the 1DX will win by a significant margin, particularly with TCs attached.

Of course, we'll need to restart this whole discussion tomorrow, after Canon releases the 5D MkIII's second firmware update that upgrades the AF to enable AF at f/8. Early reports out of Australia, where a pirated version was installed by a few users last week, are saying that AF speed is improved substantially with the 1.4X TC also. We'll see.

You're reading a ton into my post to say that I'm implying that flight photography is the beginning and end of bird photography. I AM saying that the AF system accuracy, speed and consistency is very important to flight photography, perhaps rendering the 1DX to be a superior tool for that, even though it puts less pixels on the subject. Shooting static and almost static birds and shooting BIF are two very different things. Readers need to understand the demands on the camera and photographer are very different, so I think that our discussion is useful. Counting pixels is a useful exercise, but it's only part of the analysis in chosing a body.

After I try the 1DX, I'll be able to answer for myself if the 5D3 or 1DX is a "better value". I DO shoot BIF every time the chance is offered, so if the 1DX improves my keeper rate substantially, I'm likely to declare the 1DX the better value. How valuable is the once in a lifetime shot that you missed? Moving from the 7D to the 5D MkIII I discovered that I'd been doing lots of things right all along, but missing shots, due to inaccurate AF, that I would have gotten with the 5D3's AF system. If I experience that much improvement with the 1DX, I'll buy one. Who knows, I may later move to a 7D MkII some time in the near future, if it should have a pixel advantage AND an AF advantage. IME, accurate AF beats pixel density every time.

BTW, I love the 5D MkIII and think that it's a great value that will become even better tomorrow when the firmware update is released. I'm just not able to say that it's a "better value" than the 1DX without using the 1DX in my own hands for BIF photography. Anyone totally happy with shooting only perched birds from a tripod probably will not find any advantage to the 1DX.

[arash_hazeghi]

Someone asked me to chime in here,

I just sold a 48" print of an owl image I made with the 1DX. The level of fine detail is just amazing and beyond what I have seen with any other camera body. Most fine art publisher wow when they see 1DX files and these are the folks who are used to MF quality. Almost all of the best Canon shooters have switched to 1DX now and the response is overwhelmingly positive as you can read from people who actually own this camera body and make great images with it.

The 1DX provides excellent resolution and has consistently better high ISO performance as well as DR than the 5D3. I don't think anyone can visually tell the difference between a 18Mpixel file and a 22 Mpixel file under practical field conditions. Human precipitation is logarithmic, small increments in resolution don't make meaningful difference in the output. The quality of pixels matter more than their number in most cases.

A camera is a tool, IMO the 1DX is excellent value for money for those who can afford it. IMO it is the best Canon camera to ate for all kinds of bird photography (not just flight) in the hands of an experienced photographer. The 5D3 is great all around camera. It was overpriced at the beginning compared to D800 but now that prices have dropped to $2800 it is a great all-around camera. the 1DX is competitively priced compared to its sole rival, the D4.

BTW, this is the image that I sold, I had never made a large print at ISO 5000 before.

http://ari1982.smugmug.com/Avian/Raptors/Great-Grey-Owl/28212730_4sZpr5#!i=2387347305&k=rb3cNs2&lb=1&s=X2

@Simon, if you can afford a 1DX go for it, if not you can still make great images with a 5D3 and congrats for the new glass.

[Simon Wantling]

Hi all, just picking up on this old thread I started. I actually purchased the 5d mkiii in the end and I've been totally blown away with how good it is over my 7D. It's in a league of its own. I've always considered my 7D autofocus as being really bad and moving to the 5D has shown how bad it was. My keeper rate has at least doubled and made my bird photography a pleasure. I've no regrets moving to this camera and although I may have to crop a bit more due to the full frame sensor, the image quality is in my opinion still crisper and cleaner than with my 7D.