Upgrade from 400 ƒ5.6L

[Dug Threewitt]

I'm looking to finally upgrade my 400 f5.6. My tripod/head will easily handle all of these, but I'd like some input on which you think is best. I realize this is similar to what paulongo asked, but I have different options. I have a 7D and shoot songbirds in my yard, wildlife and larger birds during migration both from my car and from the banks of the Mississippi. The only real beachy shorebirds are on vacation in July in NC.(not the best time for shorebirds on the outer banks).

Locally, I can get a 400 ƒ2.8 IS for about $5K. The pros for this lens would be, with 1.4x and 2x converters, AF will work on my 7D. It would be blinding compared to the 5.6 when looking through the camera. The major cons would be weight and sharpness with the 2X. I'd need the 1.4X to get more reach than I'm used to.

Another option is the 400 ƒ4 DO IS for about $3500. Benefits would be price and weight, but I'd lose the 2x converter and would still need the 1.4x converter for more reach.

Option 3 is the 500 ƒ4.5 for about $3500. Benefits would be price, weight and additional reach without TC, but I'd lose IS(which I've never had), and AF with the TC.

Option 4 is the 500 ƒ4IS for about $6K. Pros would be reach, AF with 1.4 TC, IS, but the cons would be price and weight.

Option 5 is the 600ƒ4IS for about $7500. The pros would be the same as the 500ƒ4, and the cons would be the same, but I'd also need to keep the 400ƒ5.6 as a gap lens. This is my least likely choice.

I've never shot with anything longer than my 400, so any additional length will be a new thing for me. I currently have about $4K set aside and can get the rest in a relatively short time, but it's taken me about 2 years to put this money together. I don't shoot professionally and have never sold or tried to sell an image.

Thanks for looking,
Dug

[Mark Theriot]

Hi Doug,
I recently retired my 400 f5.6 and have shot with the 500 f/4 and the 800 f/5.6. A couple questions,
- Are you planning on 100% tripod shooting?
- Do you plan on carrying your tripod rig short distances (out the car and down the hill) or are you looking at 1/4 mile or longer walks?

Here are some thoughts and considerations
My 500 is an "awesome" lens! use the 1.4x with it very regularly and the 2x when I have too (loose a bit more sharpness and a pretty big hit on focusing speed). A very versatile setup. 95% of my shots are tripod based with it. Hand-holding can be done for short periods of time (more if you lift weights! ;) )

Friends that I know who upgraded to the 600 speak very well of it. Only complaint is the extra weight and size.

Now, I wanted a little more mobility - so I picked up a used 400 f/4 DO and so far I'm loving it. This is a carry and hand hold rig for me (don't plan on tripod use) and I use the 1.4x almost full time with it. Good quality images and still very fast focus. Also really appreciate having image stabilization on the lens.

I don't think you could go wrong with either the 400 DO, 500 f/4 or the 600 in regards to image quality and operation. I think the biggest factor will be your personal use cases (as in the questions I asked).

Good Luck!
Mark

[Dug Threewitt]

Thanks Mark,
As to your questions, I will shoot almost exclusively from a tripod or beanbag. I also plan on taking it on hikes. Not multimile hikes, but I will take it into the state park near my house and try to get better shots of the songbirds and owls that live in there. Maybe 1-2 mile round trip. I did take my 400 on the grand canyon hike, but I never used it. I doubt I'd take the bigger boys on something like that.
Thanks again,
Dug

[Nancy Phillips]

Hi Dug - Could you borrow or rent one of your candidates for a day or a weekend? I am pretty sure that Schiller's rental stock only goes up to 300mm f/2.8, but you could check - otherwise you can rent via LensRentals (they have a full stable of Canon Big Whites). Or could you attend a seminar where attendees can try the various lenses available? I am a fellow 400mm f/5.6L and 60D shooter, and still need a lot of practice before I think about planning for a Big White. I am considering attending one of Jim Neiger's "Flight School" tutorials - you might check with him.

[Mark Theriot]

Hi Dug,
Just my personal opinion then, if you're looking to throw it over your shoulder for a mile or so - I'd skip the 600. 500 might be the best overall choice - great lens! (I really am liking my 400 DO with a 1.4x converter right now though! :bg3: ).

Do agree with Nancy though, try before you buy is a big help. Borrowlenses is great place to deal with.

Mark

[John Chardine]

Dug- "Upgrading" the 400/5.6 is not easy to do. It's very sharp, light and fast and a great choice with the 7D. If by "upgrade" you mean adding IS and/or upping your focal length, then good advice above. I have the 400DO and it is sweet though not as sharp as my old 500/4 and certainly not as sharp as my new 500/4II. I rarely use the 400/DO with the 1.4tc because I am not happy with the IQ. I wish Canon would make a super-tele 400/4 with their latest IS. It would be killer and totally usable with teleconverters. If you are looking for a step-up I would agree that you cannot go wrong with one of the 500/4 which are on sale now as people move to the version II.

[Roman Kurywczak]

If $ is a factor.....look at the Sigma 120-300 f/2.8. Even with the tc on.....rocket fast, sharp and $7,000 less (even with the tc) than the 500mm. 1/2 lb lighter too(over v2)......although if money is not an issue.....the extra reach, speed and sharpness of the 500mm is the way to go......but don't forget the practice part.

[Ian Cassell]

Just an addition to Roman's comment. I've also been looking to move up from my 400/5.6 and have been seriously considering the Sigma 120-300 (although I think I'm going to wind up with a used 500/4). If you are considering the Sigma, you might want to wait a few months. A newer version is due out in 2013 (I don't know if they've announced when) that is going to have a focus-limiter switch - the lack of which has caused many a comment. For more info on the Sigma along with some killer eagle images, check out Robert O'Toole's blog.

[arash_hazeghi]

500 f/4 IS is your lens.

[Dug Threewitt]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I've been leaning to the 500f4, and a friend is thinking of buying some big glass too. Money is less of an issue to him, but he suggested we get 2 lenses that we can swap(ie a 500 and a 600). If one of us gets the 600, then they'll keep the 400f5.6 too. I love the 400, but I just want more reach.

If I was basing this solely on money, I'd probably have more consideration for the 500f4.5, but I think I'd like the IS, extra light and newer design for a little less that 2x the price. I've seen the 4.5 for about $3500 and the 4 seems to go for around $6000-6500.

The only lens I've been able to find locally that I can try is the 400f2.8, but if I want that weight, I'd just go 600.and be able to hit 800mm with just the 1.4TC.

Luckily, I do have a couple of acquaintences that have the 500 and 600, so I could probably meet them somewhere just to shoot through their lens with my body to get a bit of a feel for it.

Thanks again for the help.
Dug

[David Stephens]

I'm late to the thread, but I'll throw another vote in for the 500f4. I made that exact same upgrade about 2-1/2 years ago and it's a HUGE upgrade. The IQ of the 500f4 blew my 400f5.6 into the weeds. I never touched it again except to sell it to a nice person on this forum. I plan to move up to the 600f4-II as soon as I can gather together a few more thousand dollars. I wish I were ready now, or I'd offer my pristine 500f4 to for $6,000 plus shipping and insurance. Oh well... I think you'll find one pretty quickly, if you don't already have your aim on one. You'll love it.