Black Rhino ISO 6400

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hi you critical folks,
like to know what you think about the high iso shot after the last disaster with the black rhino.
Image taken in Etosha at Chudop WH late in the evening :w3.

I like the colors intensive as they are,if there is an issue with "wrong " colors let me know your thoughts. IQ this time better ?

EOS 1D IV
EF 500 IS L
window bracket

F8 / 1/800sec / ISO 6400

Comments good or bad, let them come, i like to learn the limits .

Cheers Andreas

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Andreas, I think the colours reflect the time of day and therefore look good. Personally I think it's difficult to critique the image, as the high ISO certainly has played a part in the IQ, but you still have a reasonable amount of clarity and detail, especially now in the BKG, where as previous it lack some form and depth. Sharpness is OK, but coupled with the ISO/compression etc, it will not be razor sharp. You have obviously applied some NR to the image and this was where part of my commenting was going in relation to Gregor's image. Perhaps not a winning image, but it's a Rhino and that's good enough for me. :cheers:

TFS
Steve

[Ken Watkins]

Andreas,

For me this shows just how bad the high speed ISO's in a MkIV really are. The noise is unacceptably high and the colours are over-saturated to say the least, even allowing for the late night light.

Again I have no idea why you chose your settings, with a widow bracket and a not moving very fast subject you should have been able to get a sharp image at half the speed and reduced the ISO to 3200 in addition opening up the lens to F5.6 and still got a decent DOF with this lens, this in theory would have allowed further reduction in the acceptable level of ISO 800.

Steve,
Whether it is a Rhino or not does not make the image better, unless you believe they are somewhat rare, they are certainly not in Etosha, plenty there last year!
As was evidenced by the posts I made at the time, all Black Rhino all in the open and all in good light!

[Andreas Liedmann]

Thanks guys,
for watching and commenting.

Steve- do you think i can make any better under the circumstances you see here, without knowing the eventual faults i had made during PP ?

Ken - one last time and only for you.As i already said in the last post, the settings in camera i use are sometimes not ideal, but nothing i can d about it later, and if i think i need 1/2000 sec to get sharp images - it is up to me.Sometimes i do not think technically in the right way while i am photographing, i do it too seldom.
Where are your excellent shots in best light of Etosha black rhinos - let them all show up here. I would like to see them, honestly with pleasure.

Cheers Andreas

[Ken Watkins]

Andreas,

My comment on the settings was merely trying to point you in the right direction for the future, please do not get upset.

My images can be found here on the forum

Here is one

http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/90183-Black-Rhino?highlight=

I cannot find the others at the moment sorry about that, I have also posted images of Black Rhino in the past from Matusadona and Selous, hope you enjoy them.

[Hendri Venter]

Hi Andreas, I really like the colors and setting. I will not crit you on the settings as only you know what the situation was and what you wanted to achieve. I must say you're a brave man to shoot at 6400 with the 1D4 :bg3:

[Andreas Liedmann]

Hey guys,
just for clarifying, why i took images with 6400 ISO. From time to time over the years i visit southern africa, as a result i take all chances to get a halfway decent shot , for me.In case of black rhino, i have never seen that many ( 5 in 10 days ) and as you can see in decent light.So sometimes i am ending up with this settings , to get a sharp shot from my POV.Trying to get the best out of it later in PP. It is not working all the time, and that is the reason why i post them here, to learn what i can make better in both terms.

Cheers Andreas

[Morkel Erasmus]

Andreas this looks like it was a great sighting. I am not familiar with the look of the 1Dmk4 RAW files at this ISO, but I have seen output from others at web size that was quite acceptable.
I would like to rework this but I would need a high res JPG or RAW. :S3:

In terms of the general IQ of the file - not up there with your best but I certainly feel this is not unacceptable and it looks quite usable...the noise on the BG and the body is visible, but there's quite a bit of detail in the rhino and particularly the face (it does look a bit oversaturated though). I love the strong light as well - those last moments before the sun dips away? :t3


As for the sighting - I know what you mean. Every one has their own luck with sightings and some may visit Etosha regularly but not get black rhino in golden light with good visibility...it's the way the bush plays the cards. I have been to the Kgalagadi many times without any leopard sighting, but I have had exceptional luck with the cheetahs, while others don't. So don't stress too much about the frequency of sightings - as you say - use the ones you have to the best of your ability. You have already commented on the technicals and you know what could have been done differently. I would like to see anyone on this forum or others stick their hand up and say they've not cocked up settings in an exciting moment at some time in their photographic career. The important thing is to make mental notes of those moments so you can perhaps do things differently if a similar opportunity would ever arise.



It is not working all the time, and that is the reason why i post them here, to learn what i can make better in both terms.

With that kind of attitude I would like to believe you are in the right place!! :5

[Morkel Erasmus]

Andreas, thanks for the RAW file.
I couldn't resist and worked up my own vision of it quickly. The noise on ISO-6400 on the 1Dmk4 is not too bad, much better than on my old 7D and comparable to my D7000. I think you can successfully print these images up to A3 with the right processing.

What do you think of this version??? (question to all thread participants) :bg3:

[Gregor Bergquist]

Hi Andreas.

Nice sighting I think. I do wonder, how come he is so battled scarred in his face and nothing on his body? (I guess only he can answer..)
I do think you version is too saturated and in Morkels version he looks kind of sandy (a little too smooth). BG and FG too me looks more natural in Morkels version, but hey I wash´t there, and it is your picture to make a good vision of.
I think maybe it is better to accept noise in BG on high iso. (Just got some critique on this in my caracal-pic.). Please keep posting these ones - i like them and the discussion they bring.

TFS, Gregor

[Steve Kaluski]

WOW Morkel credit to you :Whoa!:, that is amazing and again, goes to show how good what Andreas had in camera was good, it just needed some additional help, Top Dog, respect. :cheers:

[Ken Watkins]

Well Morkel, that is a lot better, but then you had the raw, and would have been even better if taken at a lower ISO.

[Ken Watkins]

As for the sighting - I know what you mean. Every one has their own luck with sightings and some may visit Etosha regularly but not get black rhino in golden light with good visibility...it's the way the bush plays the cards.

Morkel,

Missed this bit earlier, LUCK is in my opinion the the greatest part of obtaining a good image, but luck increases the more you work at it:w3

[Morkel Erasmus]

Well Morkel, that is a lot better, but then you had the raw, and would have been even better if taken at a lower ISO.

Ken, why is the fact that I had the RAW an issue? It's Andreas' photo...and he has the RAW by default. I just worked it up quickly to show him, you and all interested that you don't need to be afraid of using high ISO settings and the files can still be processed to be acceptable. The techs here have been dicussed - and we all know now that Andreas could probably have dropped some SS for a lower ISO (I would even have dropped aperture to f5.6 perhaps), but there are also instances when we can only shoot at these settings because of light and conditions. :eek3:

Take my leopard chasing up the tree in Kruger last year (http://www.birdphotographers.net/forums/showthread.php/88514-Leopard-Ascent) where I could only use ISO-4000 with an SS of 1/200 and wide open aperture of f4. The technology has been growing immensely in this area and we should not be afraid to use it. Like I said, the 1Dmk4 image at ISO-6400 (first RAW I've seen personally) looks about the same as my D7000 at high ISO and I do not hesitate to push even that one this high. I have been pushing ISO whenever I can as I would rather get the shot than worry about going above my "base ISO" and I have had very few really dissappointing results, even when I was using the 7D. Perhaps when you have your 1DX you will "release the limits" a bit more for your own shooting, as I've seen some good results from it thus far.

I did a very quick job here, less than 5 minutes...one mistake I made was to only select the rhino for my sharpening layer, I should have selected the ground in the plane of focus as well. :e3 I suppose I could also have sharpened the rhino's body a bit more...



Morkel,

Missed this bit earlier, LUCK is in my opinion the the greatest part of obtaining a good image, but luck increases the more you work at it


This can also be translated as "the more you are fortunate enough to be in the bush, the better your luck will be" :w3
Not everyone can be there as often as e.g. you and I can...:e3

[Ken Watkins]

Morkel,

The fact that you had the RAW is not an issue, but starting from a non-adulterated negative rather than the image as posted here would I believe be a bit of an advantage, in making your own interpretation,

I am not overly enamoured with high ISO, perhaps I will change my mind when I get my 1DX this week, I can test it with the 500mm F4 MkII.

I agree that not everybody can be in the bush as often as we can, that is luck as well, or perhaps the decision to leave my beautiful house in France solely for the purposes of looking at Wildlife in Africa.

It was a big sacrifice both in terms of food and wine:w3

[Andreas Liedmann]

First of all thank you Morkel for your work, appreciate that very much for taking your time to work on my image.
I like it quite a lot what you did.The only nits i have are that what you stated yourself about the focal plane and sharpness.The colors are a matter of taste, in this case i am not a friend of your blues, too prominent for my taste. All the rest is quite nice, including the noise free BKG.
I had a almost in terms of contrast and noise free version but i dumped it, who knows why, sometimes too much influence by others (LOL). But i am very much open to things i can learn.And i learned now !! that it is not useless and i do not have to be too brave (others too) to use this fantastic camera under low light situations with HIGH ISO settings !!!

So i went back to RAW file, and reprocessed a bit different to the OP and i am interested what all you critical (that is good ) folks think !!
I hope for a ongoing discussion ,but maybe not that much about the camera settings , that i cannot change afterwards .

Cheers Andreas

[Dumay de Boulle]

I think Morkel's repost looks fantastic. The colors look natural and the PP is tops. Not sure what the colors are you saw out there and only you would know...I like it!

[Ken Watkins]

Andreas,

Your re-post is a vast improvement on the OP in my humble opinion, I am unsure whose re-post is better, although Morkel's crop with less at the top is better.

[Steve Kaluski]

Hi Andreas, you will have by now both hi res and a BPN web version, similar crop to yours as requested. I think it's a bit warmer, however if you wish to post/share I will leave it with you. let me know your thoughts, interesting to look & work on a high ISO file like this, thanks for the opportunity.

cheers
Steve :wave:

[Charles Glatzer]

I would only decrease the saturation of the original post. Nice image by the way.

Chas